Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A Victorian Diary - by Hunter 12 minutes ago.
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - by moste 1 hour and 8 minutes ago.
Scene of the Crimes: Miller's Court Demolition Photo - by richardh 2 hours ago.
Scene of the Crimes: Miller's Court Demolition Photo - by Debra A 3 hours ago.
Scene of the Crimes: Miller's Court Demolition Photo - by richardh 3 hours ago.
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - by NickB 3 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - (19 posts)
Maybrick, James: Who was the author of the 'Maybrick' diary? Some options. - (17 posts)
Scene of the Crimes: Miller's Court Demolition Photo - (16 posts)
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A Victorian Diary - (16 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: ORIGINAL doors in Miller's court - (11 posts)
General Police Discussion: PC Arthur FROST J Division - (7 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Scene of the Crimes

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 05-07-2017, 05:53 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,539
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Actually the link I posted states John Davis was living with his wife and three sons. The daughter is the only one not mentioned living there at the time. Whether that information is accurate or not, I don't know.
Mmm, checking his inquest testimony, he does say himself that he lived with his wife and three sons, so probably accurate.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-07-2017, 12:05 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: South london
Posts: 3,744
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
Thanks Steve. It's hardly ground-breaking research, but I thought it might be useful (for me, if for no-one else) to know who was where.
I initially put it together jotting down bits of info from press reports as and when I came across them, usually whilst looking for something else. I will go through it again thoroughly when I get the chance, as it seems some of the reports I used weren't the most accurate.
Joshua,

True it might not be ground breaking or research that shouts out look at me, nevertheless it is very useful. So often these details are scattered over many books, posts or press articles to put them together is a great idea and a useful tool if you complete it to your satisfaction.


Steve
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-08-2017, 01:32 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 2,678
Default

Hi JR

Some extra details I have:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
Ground floor rear room: living space for Mrs Hardiman and her son.
Amelia Richardson used this back, ground floor room for prayer meetings.
There was a meeting held in that room the night before the murder.
Mrs Richardson`s grandson and Mrs Hardiman`s son were going to sleep in that room Friday night but were creeped out by something and decided not to do so.

Quote:
First floor rear: Mr Walker, maker of tennis shoes, and his son.
James Walker 65yrs old, and his son, 31 year old, Alfred.

Quote:
Third floor rear: Mrs Sarah Cox, an old lady, kept out of charity (i.e. rent-free, presumably)
Name was actually Wilcox.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-09-2017, 02:07 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,539
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
Amelia Richardson used this back, ground floor room for prayer meetings.
There was a meeting held in that room the night before the murder.
Mrs Richardson`s grandson and Mrs Hardiman`s son were going to sleep in that room Friday night but were creeped out by something and decided not to do so.
Thanks Jon!
I've not read about anyone being freaked out about the back room, do you know the source? The only thing I've read (so far) is that it was locked up at 9:30pm and still locked the next morning.
Mrs Richardson by her own words only rented "half the house" so didn't sublet to the other tenants - bedrom, basement workshop and yard, and the ground floor rear room which was used as a kitchen. Her Friday prayer meetings were held either in that room or the bedroom, depending on which paper you believe.


Quote:
James Walker 65yrs old, and his son, 31 year old, Alfred.
Walker's son was said to be weak-minded but harmless.

Quote:
Name was actually Wilcox.
That could have been my fault....I may have been listening to the radio whilst typing.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-09-2017, 03:33 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 2,678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
Thanks Jon!
I've not read about anyone being freaked out about the back room, do you know the source? The only thing I've read (so far) is that it was locked up at 9:30pm and still locked the next morning.
Mrs Richardson by her own words only rented "half the house" so didn't sublet to the other tenants - bedrom, basement workshop and yard, and the ground floor rear room which was used as a kitchen. Her Friday prayer meetings were held either in that room or the bedroom, depending on which paper you believe.




Walker's son was said to be weak-minded but harmless.



That could have been my fault....I may have been listening to the radio whilst typing.
Hi JR

Mrs. Richardson, who superintends a packing-case business carried on at the back of the premises, says that, strangely enough her grandson, Charles Cooksey, was to have slept in the back room on Friday night; but he told her he did not like to, remarking, "I shan't sleep in there to-night, granny." That room, on the ground-floor, within six feet of where Annie Chapman's body lay, was unoccupied. "Had my grandson slept there," said Mrs. Richardson, "he must have heard the miscreant kill the poor woman."
Echo 10th Sept 88

I`ve never been able to trace a Mrs Cox living at 29 Hanbury Street, but in either the 1881 or 1891 census there is an old lady called Sarah Wilcox (who I assume to be our Mrs Cox)


Robert Thomson is the resident with the least info about him.
Do you have any details on him ?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-09-2017, 08:10 AM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bottesford, Leicestershire
Posts: 3,633
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
Hi JR

Mrs. Richardson, who superintends a packing-case business carried on at the back of the premises, says that, strangely enough her grandson, Charles Cooksey, was to have slept in the back room on Friday night; but he told her he did not like to, remarking, "I shan't sleep in there to-night, granny." That room, on the ground-floor, within six feet of where Annie Chapman's body lay, was unoccupied. "Had my grandson slept there," said Mrs. Richardson, "he must have heard the miscreant kill the poor woman."
Echo 10th Sept 88
A few random observations following on from the above:

It would have been invaluable for the killer of Chapman to know that the room six feet away was unoccupied on that particular night. If the door was locked from the outside, someone was in possession of the key. The fact that the door was locked in the morning does not preclude the possibility of its being opened and re-locked during the night. Could the cellar only be accessed from the yard or was there an internal access also - if so where was it?
__________________
Regards, Bridewell.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-09-2017, 11:18 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,539
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
Hi JR

Mrs. Richardson, who superintends a packing-case business carried on at the back of the premises, says that, strangely enough her grandson, Charles Cooksey, was to have slept in the back room on Friday night; but he told her he did not like to, remarking, "I shan't sleep in there to-night, granny." That room, on the ground-floor, within six feet of where Annie Chapman's body lay, was unoccupied. "Had my grandson slept there," said Mrs. Richardson, "he must have heard the miscreant kill the poor woman."
Echo 10th Sept 88
Nice one! There's that reference to her grandson as Charles Cooksey again, when she said he was Thomas Richardson. But interestingly enough, the two unmarried sisters on the second floor who made cigars were possibly called Cooksley...or Huxley, or even Mr & Mrs Copsey in one report.

Quote:
I`ve never been able to trace a Mrs Cox living at 29 Hanbury Street, but in either the 1881 or 1891 census there is an old lady called Sarah Wilcox (who I assume to be our Mrs Cox)
All the mentions I've seen so far say Cox, but then they're all from Mrs Richardson's evidence. Seems likely they're one and the same though.

Quote:
Robert Thomson is the resident with the least info about him.
Do you have any details on him ?
Nothing so far, except that he was a carman (or carpenter) and lived with his wife and an adopted young girl.

Last edited by Joshua Rogan : 05-09-2017 at 11:24 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-09-2017, 11:29 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,539
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridewell View Post
A few random observations following on from the above:

It would have been invaluable for the killer of Chapman to know that the room six feet away was unoccupied on that particular night. If the door was locked from the outside, someone was in possession of the key. The fact that the door was locked in the morning does not preclude the possibility of its being opened and re-locked during the night. Could the cellar only be accessed from the yard or was there an internal access also - if so where was it?
No idea about the cellar, but would presume Mrs Richardson had the padlock key. She does say that she locked the back parlour and took the key with her, so realistically only her or her grandson could have had access, and she was awake half the night.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-30-2017, 05:54 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,728
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
Hi JR

Mrs. Richardson, who superintends a packing-case business carried on at the back of the premises, says that, strangely enough her grandson, Charles Cooksey, was to have slept in the back room on Friday night; but he told her he did not like to, remarking, "I shan't sleep in there to-night, granny." That room, on the ground-floor, within six feet of where Annie Chapman's body lay, was unoccupied. "Had my grandson slept there," said Mrs. Richardson, "he must have heard the miscreant kill the poor woman."
Echo 10th Sept 88

I`ve never been able to trace a Mrs Cox living at 29 Hanbury Street, but in either the 1881 or 1891 census there is an old lady called Sarah Wilcox (who I assume to be our Mrs Cox)


Robert Thomson is the resident with the least info about him.
Do you have any details on him ?
Interesting stuff. I say John Richardson is the best Ripper suspect, he put himself there on the spot at the time of the murder with a knife and he lies about it. Very strange that the grandson chose not to sleep in the room. Was the boy John Richardson's nephew? I think it's suspicious and the kid knew something
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-09-2018, 04:38 PM
C. F. Leon C. F. Leon is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 137
Default

There seems to be confusion about the ground floor rear room: Begg (Facts, pgs 74-75) has it being the location of Mrs Richardson's packing-case shop & Prayer meetings, with the front room serving as BOTH the Hardimans' living space and the cat's-meat shop. But he does not mention any cellar. (The Definitive History drops this & moves the packing-case business to the cellar (pg 152).)

As for the residents with the least information- we are told that Richard Thompson was a carman (age not given), but we don't even know the name of his wife or little girl, which is said to be adopted. Alfred Walker is only said to be 31 and "weak-minded". (Does this a polite term what we would call "retarded" or it not quite THAT level?) Finally, I don't even have ages for Francis Tyler or names for the two sisters.

It's interesting that Mrs Richardson's grandson is called Charles Cooksley and another source gives this (or a variant) as the name of the two sisters. Poor note-taking at the hand of the reporter? Is it the same source that gives the charity case as "Cox", rather than "Wilcox"? Also the Davis family had moved into the house only a couple of weeks earlier, do we know where they lived before? (One of those cottages on Buck's Row, perhaps? They moved sometime after the murder- maybe to Berner St.? Were they Polish Jews? or coal-miners from Wales looking for a lost uncle or brother's widow?)

- CFL
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.