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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Non-Canonical Victims > Alice Mackenzie

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  #401  
Old 06-15-2013, 11:29 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Schwartz only claimed to run from the second man following him, not from the scuffle in the gateway.
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  #402  
Old 06-15-2013, 12:20 PM
Observer Observer is offline
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Hi Wickerman

Schwartz was verbally threatened by BS man though.

Would Schwartz have felt threatened?

I'm sure he would have been.

I'm sure Schwartz, should he have stumbled into a policeman during his flight would have sought his assistance.

Forget Schwartz for a moment though. What is relevent to the whole assault is whether BS man felt it neccessary to break off the assault on the grounds that he had been interupted by Schwartz.

If he was JTR he might well have decided to cut his losses (no pun intended) and kill Stride,(she could after all identify him) and make off into the night before Schwartz returned with help.

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Observer
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  #403  
Old 06-15-2013, 12:31 PM
DVV DVV is offline
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Exactly, Obs.

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  #404  
Old 06-15-2013, 12:41 PM
Observer Observer is offline
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Now if we can only explain away those cachous David!

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Observer
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  #405  
Old 06-15-2013, 01:24 PM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Hello David. Thanks.

Very well. On what charge does he summon the constable?

Cheers.
LC
I suspect this is a tongue-in-cheek post but what the heck.

The duties of the police, then as now, were the protection of life and property, the maintenance of order, the prevention and detection of crime and the prosecution of offenders against the peace. The assault on Stride, if an injury was sustained, would have been an assault occasioning actual bodily harm under s.49 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861. The assault itself and the production of a knife by pipeman were certainly more than enough to constitute a Breach of the Peace.
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  #406  
Old 06-15-2013, 01:45 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello David. Thanks.

"[S]eriously, your "On what charge?" wasn't a serious question."

Ah, but it WAS a serious question.

"If it was enough to frighten Schwartz. . ."

Where does Israel say it frightened him? Pipe man, maybe.

". . . it was enough to summon a constable."

Again, on what charge? Lamb had seen rows and squabbles enough. Routine.

"Especially in Sept 88."

Especially NOT.

1. Why had no one flinched at the cry of "Murder" in Martha's case?

2. What about "MJK"--the same?

Cheers.
LC
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  #407  
Old 06-15-2013, 01:56 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Default pipe/knife

Hello Colin. Thanks.

"I suspect this is a tongue-in-cheek post but what the heck."

Not at all.

"The assault itself and the production of a knife by pipeman were certainly more than enough to constitute a Breach of the Peace."

What knife? I agree that "The Star" had "knife" not "pipe."

Am I accusing "The Star" of making something up? Certainly not. Never happened. What then? A natural mistake. Evidence?

Well, what did the police report say? He was lighting his pipe.

So, one says pipe, one says knife.

1. How does one light a pipe? One tamps the tobacco in and employs a match.

2. How does one light a knife?

Cheers.
LC
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  #408  
Old 06-15-2013, 02:26 PM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer View Post
Forget Schwartz....


Regards

Observer
I just captured the best part of the post above Observer...too much time spent on a tale that has zero corroboration by any witness involved in the Berner Street investigation.

Cheers
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  #409  
Old 08-19-2017, 03:41 PM
curious curious is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Lucky View Post

Dr Llewellyn on the knife used on Nichols -

'The weapon used would scarcely have been a sailor's jack knife, but a pointed weapon with a stout back--such as a cork-cutter's or shoemaker's knife.'

note - A shoemaker works with leather
How very interesting that the young man who was drafted by police to stand by the body of Alice McKenzie,Isaac Lewis Jacobs, gave his occupation as bootmaker at the inquest.

curious
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  #410  
Old 08-19-2017, 04:01 PM
curious curious is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregBaron View Post

In addition to Stride, I could see Coles or Mackenzie as being interrupted. It's not easy to have the privacy to rip-em-to-bits in a very crowded East end with coppers afoot.


Greg
Actually, it seems only the coppers were afoot in Castle Alley. The policeman interviewed for the inquest all said no one really used the Alley, which was parked full of vans, wagons and barrows, and that not all of them were checked to see if someone was sleeping in them. One of the coppers had even had his private picnic at the same lamppost where Alice was killed.

Castle Alley was apparently quiet and eerily reminiscent of the murder of Polly Nichols. No one about, the police saw and heard nothing, a freshly killed woman and still he got away.

curious
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