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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #11  
Old 11-14-2016, 04:47 AM
Charles Daniels Charles Daniels is offline
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I'm not sure anything I've read personally points to them "lowering their guard", as much as being pretty blasé about it all.

If we believe testimony of the time, they were desperate enough to go off with men who they had just witnessed hit another prostitute.

And I believe there have been more recent cases where prostitutes continued to ply their trade as normal even when it was known murders targeting prostitutes were going on.

So I think this likely is caused by a combination of desperation and the idea of being statistically safe -- there are so many prostitutes here and so few murders that he isn't going to get "me"
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  #12  
Old 11-14-2016, 04:55 AM
Charles Daniels Charles Daniels is offline
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Originally Posted by wigngown View Post
I've always believed that the Killer was cunning and left little if anything to chance. He must have known the area very well and I believe planned the attacks to allow him a number of escape routes.
Dutfield's Yard seems like a bad match for that idea.
If he wanted an easy escape, he only has one exit.
There is the benefit of there only being one entrance to worry about.
But if he knew the area, he must have been prepared to make a high energy escape by scaling into multiple backyards.

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If the victims went willingly to their slaughter, which apparently they did, then he must have been know to them and was trusted or his 'appearance' made him, in their minds, trustworthy.
Except they were probably extremely drunk, they were definitely extremely desperate.

If you've led hundreds of men into dark alleys over the years and come out of it okay, you probably feel like you can take anything to come your way, and you probably think the majority of the time nothing much unexpected happens.

My assumption is they probably didn't wait around for a long time, every time, to build up trust and probably relied on gut instinct and experience.
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  #13  
Old 02-26-2017, 07:02 PM
Edward Edward is offline
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I doubt that the Whitechapel murder victims had a regular clientele. They prostituted themselves on the occasions when they were desperate for money. They didn’t seem to be career working girls out on the street every night. I feel that most of their contacts were random blokes.

Serial killers tend not to be pre-planners. Their murders occur when opportunity meets bloodlust. So, I cannot subscribe to the notion of Jack becoming a “regular” in order to gain anyone’s confidence: too much planning.

Ted Bundy was a horrible serial killer. Prolific. From my reading, I don’t think that any of his victims actually knew him. He just seemed outwardly normal, and had a line of BS to gain the victims’ confidence. In fact, the one woman who did know Bundy (his girlfriend) was not murdered.

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  #14  
Old 02-27-2017, 08:36 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by Bridewell View Post
Rather than derail the "Recognition" thread, I thought it appropriate to start another on the reason why a motley collection of unfortunates were persuaded to allow a man to take them to one side and quietly assassinate them. These women may have been down on their luck but they were not stupid. They were middle-aged, savvy, streetwise women who, by the very nature of their 'work', had probably all survived violent encounters of one sort or another. Yet someone, somehow (even at the height of the Ripper scare), persuaded them to lower their guard to such an extent that they went with him willingly and placed themselves in circumstances where he was able to achieve his ghastly aims with little or no resistance.

Suggestions invited as to what sort of man would have been able to do this. Perhaps someone who was familiar to all of them. I'm suggesting (with no suspect in mind) someone like Steve Wright, the so-called "Ipswich Ripper" who used the services of the local prostitutes over a period of time and so gained their trust. My view is that, if there was a single "Jack the Ripper" entity, he was such a man - a regular - a man who had been a safe customer in the past and in whose company they therefore presumed, fatally, that they were completely safe.
There were 2 Canonical Victims who were destitute on the respective nights they were killed, and as such they were actively soliciting to get doss for that same night. Both were diminished physically, Polly by drink, and Annie by sickness...so it would seem reasonable to assume that for these 2 victims immediate circumstances necessitated their meeting strangers.

Mary didn't need to raise money on the night she was killed, she had a room in her name, Kate...had she checked with John... apparently had no need for soliciting to secure her bed that night, and Liz left the house with enough to pay for a bed.
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  #15  
Old 02-27-2017, 09:46 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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There were 2 Canonical Victims who were destitute on the respective nights they were killed, and as such they were actively soliciting to get doss for that same night. Both were diminished physically, Polly by drink, and Annie by sickness...so it would seem reasonable to assume that for these 2 victims immediate circumstances necessitated their meeting strangers.
Polly might also have been looking for somewhere to sleep, as indeed might Eddowes. Prostitution aside, their need for accommodation alone could have given their killer a means by which to win their confidence.
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Old 02-27-2017, 11:13 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Polly might also have been looking for somewhere to sleep, as indeed might Eddowes. Prostitution aside, their need for accommodation alone could have given their killer a means by which to win their confidence.
Polly did say she was off to earn her doss Sam, we have no such evidence Kates mission near Mitre was solicitation....which is a key factor in the thread question...how did he get them to keep going into the dark with him with all the press and talk on the streets...my answer is based upon what we know was immediate need. Only in Polly and Annies case do we have the victims themselves telling us what they were still doing out late at night...soliciting to earn a bed.
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  #17  
Old 02-27-2017, 11:40 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Only in Polly and Annies case do we have the victims themselves telling us what they were still doing out late at night...soliciting to earn a bed.
Indeed. My point is, if someone offered them a bed, the victims would have been just as, perhaps more, likely to go with him than if he asked them for sex.

In other words, in their state of "roomlessness", they could have lowered their guard without having to lower their knickers.
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  #18  
Old 02-27-2017, 12:32 PM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Indeed. My point is, if someone offered them a bed, the victims would have been just as, perhaps more, likely to go with him than if he asked them for sex.

In other words, in their state of "roomlessness", they could have lowered their guard without having to lower their knickers.
I suppose I could begrudgingly accept the codicil Sam,.......although I don't see an offer of a bed as a real possibility here.
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  #19  
Old 02-27-2017, 12:43 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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I suppose I could begrudgingly accept the codicil Sam,.......although I don't see an offer of a bed as a real possibility here.
I'm not saying it definitely happened that way, Michael, but I don't see why not. Put yourself in a killer's shoes - wouldn't you use any tactic at your disposal, if you thought it would give you an advantage over your prey?
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  #20  
Old 02-28-2017, 04:55 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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I'm not saying it definitely happened that way, Michael, but I don't see why not. Put yourself in a killer's shoes - wouldn't you use any tactic at your disposal, if you thought it would give you an advantage over your prey?
I agree in principle Sam, I was speaking to the probabilities. I don't see a conniving, scheming killer who gets at Polly Sam, he is a pent-up flood of emotions and far too eager to get to the moments he is looking for. He acts spontaneously and rashly. But with confidence, he lets the next victim lead him.
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