Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - by RockySullivan 17 minutes ago.
Witnesses: Why doubt a soldier murdered Tabram? - by Scott Nelson 1 hour and 14 minutes ago.
Elizabeth Stride: Elizabeth's murder and the double event - by Madam Detective 5 hours ago.
Elizabeth Stride: Elizabeth's murder and the double event - by Madam Detective 5 hours ago.
Elizabeth Stride: Elizabeth's murder and the double event - by Madam Detective 5 hours ago.
Witnesses: Why doubt a soldier murdered Tabram? - by Harry D 5 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - (16 posts)
Tumblety, Francis: Tumblety - Hermaphrodite. - (13 posts)
Witnesses: Why doubt a soldier murdered Tabram? - (12 posts)
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - (10 posts)
Elizabeth Stride: Elizabeth's murder and the double event - (5 posts)
General Discussion: Albert Backert - did he emigrate? - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Witnesses

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-22-2016, 03:01 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 717
Default Inquest deposition of Eliza Cooper and Elizabeth Long

Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser - Saturday 22 September 1888

THE WHITE CHAPEL MURDERS RESUMED INQUESTS

Eliza Cooper deposed:


I lodge at 25, Dorset-street, Spitalfields. I have done so for the last five months. I knew the deceased. I had a quarrel with her the Tuesday before she was murdered. On the previous Saturday she brought Mr. Stanley into 25, Dorset-street. The deceased came into the kitchen, and asked the people there to give her some soap. They told her to ask "'Liza." She came to me, and I opened the locker and gave her some. She gave it to Stanley, who went outside and washed himself in the lavatory. When she came back I asked for the soap, but she did not return it. She said, "I will see you by-and-by." Mr Stanley gave her 2s., and paid for the bed for two nights. I saw no more of her that night. Stanley treated me. I saw her on the Wednesday. When I met her in the kitchen, I said, "Perhaps you will return my soap." We got quarreling, and we went out to the Ringers' public-house, and continued the quarrel. She slapped my face, and said, "Thank yourself lucky I did not do more." I struck her in the left eye, I believe, and then in the chest. I afterwards saw that the blow had marked her face.
-When was the last time you saw her alive? -On the Wednesday night in the Ringers.
-Was she wearing rings? - Yes, she was wearing three rings on the third finger of the left hand. They were all brass. She bought them from a black man.
-Had she ever a gold wedding ring to your knowledge? - No, not since I have known her. I have known her about 15 years. I know she associated with Stanley, "Harry the Hawker", and several others.
The Foreman of the Jury: Are there any of those with whom she associated missing? - I could not tell.
A Juryman: Was she on the same relations with the as she was with Stanley? - No, sir. She used to bring them casually into the lodging-house.

Elizabeth Long deposed:

I live in Church-row, Whitechapel. I am married to James Long, a cart-minder. On Saturday, the 8th September, about half-past five o'clock in the morning, I was passing down Hanbury-street from home on my way to Spitalfields Market. I know the time because I heard the brewers' clock strike half-past five just before I got up to them. I passed 29, Hanbury-street, on the right-hand side - the same side as the house. I saw a man and a woman standing on the pavement talking. His back was turned towards Brick-lane, and the woman's was towards the market. They were standing only a few yards nearer Brick-lane from 29, Hanbury-street. I saw the woman's face. I saw the deceased in the mortuary after death. I am sure the woman that I saw in Hanbury-street was the deceased. I did not see the man's face, but I noticed that he was dark. He was wearing a brown deerstalker hat. I think he had on a dark coat, though I am not certain. By his look he seemed to be a man over 40 years of age. He appeared to be a little taller than deceased. He looked like a foreigner. I should say he looked what I should call "shabby genteel." They were talking loudly. I overheard him say to her "Will you?" and she said "Yes."
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-22-2016, 03:29 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,426
Default

I am not sure what Long means when she said I did not see his face but he was dark. Is she referring to his hair? She also describes him as being "a little taller" than the deceased which would seem to rule out Tumblety.

c.d.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-22-2016, 03:35 PM
GUT GUT is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: I come from a land Down Under
Posts: 7,142
Default

And in any event was it the killer.
__________________
G U T

There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-22-2016, 04:42 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,518
Default Dark complexion or race?

Quote:
Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
I am not sure what Long means when she said I did not see his face but he was dark. Is she referring to his hair? She also describes him as being "a little taller" than the deceased which would seem to rule out Tumblety.

c.d.
I wonder if he was the "black man" that she got the rings from? And did that refer to an African, West Indian, Gypsy or Hindu? Any might be considered "foreign" -- though Jews were, as well.
__________________
Pat D.
---------------
Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
---------------
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-22-2016, 05:09 PM
Rosella Rosella is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,542
Default

I think if Mrs Long thought the man was African she would have said 'black man', whether that meant a person from Africa or from India. I believe she meant a person who was not pale, who had a rather swarthy or olive complexion but was of European descent. She may have just had a passing impression of someone foreign ie Jewish, it just isn't spelled out.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-22-2016, 05:32 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 717
Default

]I was impressed by another instance of ,,will you? -yes.,, happening to Annie 3 weeks prior to the ,,will you? -yes.,, that Lawende overhears being said to Kate. Is it much of a stretch to imagine Eliz answering ,,no, not tonite, some other night,, to this request, or Mary Jane responding that she wouls make him comfortable?
- - - - - - - - -
Many of these women are described as ,,dark,,.

Last edited by Robert St Devil : 04-22-2016 at 05:56 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-22-2016, 06:05 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,436
Default

Are you sure about that? I don't remember Lawende saying he overheard any conversation from the couple in Church Passage.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-22-2016, 06:58 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 717
Default

Yea. That,s on me. Got my stories crossed, sure i saw that here before.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-09-2016, 10:22 AM
miss marple miss marple is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 722
Default

Rosella, Mrs Long said 'blackman' which implies an African or possibly Asian.
No one called Jews or Southern Europeans blackmen. Not that it is imporant where the rings came from.

Miss Marple
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-09-2016, 10:35 AM
Rosella Rosella is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,542
Default

Yes, but Mrs Long also said "He looked like a foreigner'. Surely, if he'd been African or Indian there wouldn't have been any doubt, would there?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.