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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

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  #281  
Old Yesterday, 04:44 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is online now
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Hi: I've been thinking about it for 3 or 4 hours now and it still doesn't make sense to me. From the time that he first spoke to her until he allegedly saw this Oscar Wilde type dandy wasn't all that long. I can't see how he suddenly went from not looking for a victim to looking for a victim. Kelly was virtually offering herself up to him yet he walked away.

Regards
HS
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  #282  
Old Yesterday, 04:47 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is online now
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Sorry I missed Abby Normal's post.

If he did why did Kelly refuse when she was desperate for cash and found another client almost immediately after?

Regards
HS
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  #283  
Old Yesterday, 04:51 PM
MysterySinger MysterySinger is offline
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Well, of course, there needn't have been a second man at all - merely an attempt by Hutch to deflect suspicion from himself. He could have told the Police anything at all (or even nothing).
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  #284  
Old Yesterday, 06:20 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Sorry I missed Abby Normal's post.

If he did why did Kelly refuse when she was desperate for cash and found another client almost immediately after?

Regards
HS
Well he could have lied about that to, but
My take on what really happened is this:

The only part of hutchs story that is corroborated is his waiting there for about 45 minutes at about in between two and three am, by Sarah Lewis.


So this being the case what can we draw from this and what else we know about Mary's movement. We know she had blotchy in her place earlier, apparently singing to him, very drunk, maybe drinking more and or eating with him, fire going, nasty night out. To me it doesn't look like Mary had any intention of going out again that night even if she could.

I think hutch came by her place around 2ish, realized she was still with blotchy, waited for him to leave till about three, then left and came back around 4ish where he notices blotch has left, gained entrance and killed Mary. He lied about seeing Mary earlier that night and about Aman.

Of course this is the scenario I have if he's the ripper. He could have just been an attention seeker looking for personal gain, and of course the scenario would change. In which case IMHO blotchy killed and is the ripper.
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #285  
Old Yesterday, 09:08 PM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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As has been argued many times a client or friend can setup an appointment,even double the amount to be paid,and kill Kelly with no Oh Murder.The unfortunate,if alone, can save roaming around the street at early mornings.The man seen by Sarah Lewis was an intruder and had no reason to come forward - he was also seen before killing Eddowes, Chapman.
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  #286  
Old Today, 01:00 AM
harry harry is offline
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Hutchinson can only be placed outside Crossingham's about 2.30.When he arrived,or how long he stayed,is open to argument,as is his reasons for being there.There is only his word. What appears to me is that there is so much of an abnormal nature to his story,it would not be wise to accept it at face value.
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  #287  
Old Today, 06:38 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is online now
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I've always felt that Hutchinson was unreliable due to the description of the man he said that he saw with MJK. After all this was 'the most evil street in London.' A street were the police only entered in pairs. A man in a posh coat with a gold watch chain and a tie pin? Surely, I've always thought, he might as well have worn a coat with 'please mug me, I'm loaded,' written on the back. But...and there's always a but lurking around the corner. I just re-read Hutchinson's statement and I must say that I can see why Abberline felt that it was genuine. It's a pity that Sarah Lewis was never asked if she knew Hutchinson or that she was ever asked to identify him as the man loitering at Crossinghams. It would have removed any doubts. After all, if Hutchinson was making this story up, Lewis could have just seen 'a man' that wasn't Hutchinson. Another point I've considered is: would the chance of reward or that of fifteen minutes of fame have outweighed the possibility of putting himself in the frame by admitting to have been on the spot?
I'm still of the opinion that neither 'astrakhan man,' or Hutchinson was the ripper. AM(if he existed) had been seen and could be identified by Hutchinson as a man entering Millers Court with the victim just before she was murdered. This would have been unbelievably reckless and recklessness is an attribute that we cannot award the Ripper. Hutchinson had been loitering for 45 minutes and would have been known in the area. He also had the chance earlier to take Mary home and murder her but didn't take it. He went to the police (3 days late, admittedly) and gave a statement where the Ripper would surely have kept quiet.
Hutchinson comes across as someone who was fond of Kelly; maybe even to point of being a borderline stalker. He certainly appeared to have an unusual level of interest in her activities. Maybe MJK took advantage of this occasionally to tap him for a few pence. All told Hutchinson doesn't make the grade as a real suspect for me. It goes without saying, therefore, that if Hutchinson was telling the truth then Blotchy is immediately eliminated as the killer.
Regards
HS

Last edited by Herlock Sholmes : Today at 06:42 AM.
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  #288  
Old Today, 10:35 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry View Post
What appears to me is that there is so much of an abnormal nature to his story,it would not be wise to accept it at face value.
I couldn't agree more.
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  #289  
Old Today, 12:29 PM
Flower and Dean Flower and Dean is offline
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Why do we even assume that the man Hutchinson described was wealthy? The items he had on him would indicate that he wasn't poor, but we can't be sure of their quality or how he acquired them. He could have been more along the lines of middle-class or so. There were places in the area that could explain someone who wasn't sleep-on-the-rough poor being around.

If he really was wealthy, it sounds rare but not impossible that he'd be around.

You'd think that Hutchinson, if he was lying, would have been better at coming up with a more average-sounding description. Men in less recognisable clothing were a dime-a-dozen in the East End, why not provide a description like that? Abberline was familiar enough with the area and he didn't seem to think it was outside of the realm of possibility.

If I recall correctly, some of the early theories and rumours had to do with "respectable" men.

All of this makes me think that it's not really as implausible as we all think and that maybe this man wasn't princely-levels wealthy as we tend to assume. Even accounting for things like Abberline possibly being desperate to solve the case and the nature of rumours, I'd trust people who were there at the time to have a sense of what it was like better than I do.

I think that if Hutchinson was the killer, it's more plausible to me that he either saw a man like this and was trying to put the blame on him, or that he knew that description would be a mix of specific and believable enough to throw everyone off his scent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varqm View Post
As has been argued many times a client or friend can setup an appointment,even double the amount to be paid,and kill Kelly with no Oh Murder.The unfortunate,if alone, can save roaming around the street at early mornings.The man seen by Sarah Lewis was an intruder and had no reason to come forward - he was also seen before killing Eddowes, Chapman.
Which man?
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  #290  
Old Today, 01:40 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is online now
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Default A lesson in preconceptions.

Hi: firstly I'd echo the 'which man?' question.

As I mentioned earlier I've always been suspicious that this well-to-do-gent never existed but I re read the statement and can see why Abberline felt it was genuine. Flower and Dean you are absolutely right about this. I think that I've been 'infected' by the Stephen Knight scenario. This guy could have been just a bit better off than everyone else. The coat could have been second hand or even a bit moth-eaten; it was dark after all. Maybe the watch was a cheap second hand one or a family heirloom worn on special occasions.
A lesson in preconceptions!
I still feel sure that this guy wasn't the Ripper for the reasons that I stated earlier but he might not have been a figment of Hutchinsons imagination after all.
Cheers
HS
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