Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A Victorian Diary - by rjpalmer 8 minutes ago.
Other: Ripper Novel? - by WastelandOfTheRipper 3 hours ago.
Other: Ripper Novel? - by DJA 3 hours ago.
Other: Ripper Novel? - by WastelandOfTheRipper 4 hours ago.
Other: Ripper Novel? - by DJA 6 hours ago.
Other: Ripper Novel? - by WastelandOfTheRipper 6 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Other: Ripper Novel? - (20 posts)
Witnesses: The Bucks Row Project part 2 - (11 posts)
Goulston Street Graffito: Can we profile the Ripper from the GSG? - (8 posts)
Maybrick, James: 25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith - (7 posts)
Scene of the Crimes: Leather Apron found at Hanbury Street - (5 posts)
General Police Discussion: Kelly inquest/Smithkey - (4 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #141  
Old 11-16-2016, 03:03 AM
Henry Flower Henry Flower is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Hackney Wick
Posts: 1,009
Default

I think it's important to remember this authoritative instruction:

But the murdered woman Kelly was the murdered woman Kelly. That is the discourse. And sometimes the discourse does not hide a mechanism.

The mechanism is instead in the head of the interpreter. When the interpreter does not understand the external world, he invents an explanation.

So this is what we must try to avoid.


The murdered woman Kelly was the murdered woman Kelly, and the resignation letter dated 8th November was the resignation letter dated 8th November. The discourse does not hide a mechanism, there is no point inventing an explanation.

Is that simple enough, Pierre? Or do the rules you impose on others change when you need them to?
__________________
What should I do at Rome? I have not learnt
The art of lying


Decimus Iunius Iuvenalis - Satire III
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 11-16-2016, 03:20 AM
Phil Carter Phil Carter is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,129
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Flower View Post
I think it's important to remember this authoritative instruction:

But the murdered woman Kelly was the murdered woman Kelly. That is the discourse. And sometimes the discourse does not hide a mechanism.

The mechanism is instead in the head of the interpreter. When the interpreter does not understand the external world, he invents an explanation.

So this is what we must try to avoid.


The murdered woman Kelly was the murdered woman Kelly, and the resignation letter dated 8th November was the resignation letter dated 8th November. The discourse does not hide a mechanism, there is no point inventing an explanation.

Is that simple enough, Pierre? Or do the rules you impose on others change when you need them to?
Hello Henry,

Like others, I have considered the possibility that MJK was not the victim's real name.
Proving it is another matter entirely..and on a par with proving that it was "MJK" found in that room. Historical fact, bona fida fact..is missing each way.
The chance of a pseudonym being used is pretty high I'd say..looking at the amount people in this case that have more than one known name.

That said..Pierre is scratching around trying to fit theory into fact. Theory is fine. It has to have factual merit though.


Phil
__________________
Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE AND CHAMPIONS AGAIN. 💙


Justice for the 96 = achieved
Accountability? ....
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 11-16-2016, 03:41 AM
Henry Flower Henry Flower is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Hackney Wick
Posts: 1,009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Carter View Post
Hello Henry,

Like others, I have considered the possibility that MJK was not the victim's real name.
Proving it is another matter entirely..and on a par with proving that it was "MJK" found in that room. Historical fact, bona fida fact..is missing each way.
The chance of a pseudonym being used is pretty high I'd say..looking at the amount people in this case that have more than one known name.

That said..Pierre is scratching around trying to fit theory into fact. Theory is fine. It has to have factual merit though.


Phil
Hello Phil, I quite agree. I have nothing to say on the identity of the various cuts of meat found strewn around in Miller's Court; my point was merely to point out to Pierre, and anyone else playing his game, that the proscriptions and prescriptions he always imposes on the reasoning of others he is happy to push to one side in his own work, when it suits his theory. That's all.

A year of hypocrisy and arrogance, in the service of a theory that sounds more comical with each hint he lets himself reveal.

What a farce. How long will this bollocks continue?
__________________
What should I do at Rome? I have not learnt
The art of lying


Decimus Iunius Iuvenalis - Satire III
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 11-16-2016, 03:49 AM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Flushing, New York
Posts: 2,680
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Flower View Post
So Jeff, if your reading is correct then this is yet another thread that is rendered an absolute waste of time by Pierre's cowardly refusal to divulge his sources.

How long can this game continue?

For what it's worth I don't agree; I would bet on his having no specific sources indicating a problem with the dating of the letter. I think the evolution of this thread indicates a man who didn't initially realise quite how definitive the dating was, and who has subsequently resorted to vagueness and bluster in an effort to extricate himself from his own error.
Hello Henry,

This game will continue until Pierre commits some real blunder that either permanently gets him kicked off the website, or reveals (accidentally) who he really is, and enables us to get after him for annoying most of us. Because it is impossible to time limit either of those events, your guess is as good as mine as to how long this game of idiocy will continue.

You may be right - he may be floundering around having opened himself up to possible theory (not likely truth) and finds he misjudged everything due to his own ego. But such an ego is not likely to ever admit it was wrong - it was simply misunderstood by the rest of us.

As for myself, aside from minor comments I have absented myself from deeply contesting every point. Just as well, as I can't abide the debates that are going on about Pierre's dross.

Jeff
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 11-16-2016, 03:57 AM
Phil Carter Phil Carter is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,129
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Flower View Post
Hello Phil, I quite agree. I have nothing to say on the identity of the various cuts of meat found strewn around in Miller's Court; my point was merely to point out to Pierre, and anyone else playing his game, that the proscriptions and prescriptions he always imposes on the reasoning of others he is happy to push to one side in his own work, when it suits his theory. That's all.

A year of hypocrisy and arrogance, in the service of a theory that sounds more comical with each hint he lets himself reveal.

What a farce. How long will this bollocks continue?
Hello Henry,

I agree entirely.
There are theories..snd theorists.

Then there are time wasters.


Phil
__________________
Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE AND CHAMPIONS AGAIN. 💙


Justice for the 96 = achieved
Accountability? ....
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 11-27-2016, 05:55 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Flower View Post
I think it's important to remember this authoritative instruction:

But the murdered woman Kelly was the murdered woman Kelly. That is the discourse. And sometimes the discourse does not hide a mechanism.

The mechanism is instead in the head of the interpreter. When the interpreter does not understand the external world, he invents an explanation.

So this is what we must try to avoid.


The murdered woman Kelly was the murdered woman Kelly, and the resignation letter dated 8th November was the resignation letter dated 8th November. The discourse does not hide a mechanism, there is no point inventing an explanation.

Is that simple enough, Pierre? Or do the rules you impose on others change when you need them to?
Did you not see the word "sometimes"?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.