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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Social Chat > Shades of Whitechapel

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  #21  
Old 10-24-2012, 06:42 PM
curious curious is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi DP and curious
Thanks for all the info-truly interesting and bizarre case.

Why do the authorities/and you think the killer is wealthy? Just because the women charge alot and/or he tells them he can pay them alot does not mean he actuallly has the money right? They are murdered so they never get the money and/or he takes it back. Am I missing something here?

Also, Re the seasonal worker: Teachers and school administrators/staff are off summers and many spend there free summers at the beach.

Also, i think it may be wise to follow the burlap bag clue. Its not a common type material/bag. I know nurseries (trees/plants/flower shops) and therefore also Landscaping businesses use burlap sacks.

Perhaps this guy works at a school in NY/NJ area in the non summer months and during the summer months has a place on LI where he does landscaping(also a "seasonal" job).
Hi, Abby,
Love the Landscaper angle! And an owner of some landscaping businesses -- plural might have the money.

And teachers and other seasonal workers to add to the list! great.

As for being wealthy -- One of the women actually had $900 put into her bank account, if I recall correctly.

Here it is:
http://www.altereddimensions.net/cri...ialKiller.aspx

On the night that Barthelemy disappeared, she had met with a client, deposited $900 in her bank account, and attempted to call an old boyfriend who did not answer his phone. She then checked her voicemail from two motels in Massepequa (a Budget Inn and a Best Western). She then left the motel for a appointment with a client. Her pimp had offered her a ride but she declined the offer. Barthelemy was never seen again."

So, there was actual money.

Then:

One week after her disappearance, Milissa’s sister, Amanda Barthelemy, began receiving a series of mocking phone calls that were placed from her missing sister’s cell phone. The first calls occurred on July 16, July 19, and July 23. The caller referred to Barthelemy as a “whore” and a horrible, nasty person. The calls were coarsely traced and deteremined to originate from midtown Manhattan in the Madison Square Garden and Times Square areas of town. Police rushed to the scene after each call but the caller kept each communication under 3 minutes so the exact location could not be pinpointed. Surveillance video of the area where the calls came from showed hundreds of people milling around, many with phones pressed to their ears. The mocking calls continued for five weeks.

Perhaps the follow up with the family -- the only time that appears to have occurred -- was his fury at losing the money????

Is that a possibility?

Which might indicate he really did not have the money to lose. Right?

Another victim was offered $1,500.

"On the night that she disappeared, Amber Costello went to meet a stranger who had seen her advertisement on Craigslist. The customer had called her several times and had offered her $1,500 for her services."


Also from the above website:
"Police also think the killer is a white male who is familiar with the South Shore of Long Island (likely a long-time resident of the area). And given the costs he was willing to pay for the escort services, they believe there is a high likelihood that the Long Island Serial Killer is an upper class citizen in a high income bracket."

However, Abby, as you pointed out, it is not likely that money has changed hands that often. Or did it?

Also, one of the early victims was a prostitute from Washington DC -- now how did that happen?

I like the burlap thought, because originally, the bodies were wrapped in plastic. However, once the killer saw he could go years and the bodies not be discovered, he switched to burlap.

why?

perhaps he had easy access to burlap.

Interesting.

curious

P.S. this post is from yesterday, Oct. 23, 2012:

http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/12...medium=twitter

Last edited by curious : 10-24-2012 at 06:57 PM.
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  #22  
Old 10-24-2012, 06:59 PM
curious curious is offline
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Dark Passenger:
This website links the two dump grounds to one organization that has access to burlap and leaders with abuse in their backgrounds:

http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/12...medium=twitter
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  #23  
Old 10-24-2012, 10:55 PM
DarkPassenger DarkPassenger is offline
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Originally Posted by curious View Post
I like the burlap thought, because originally, the bodies were wrapped in plastic. However, once the killer saw he could go years and the bodies not be discovered, he switched to burlap.

why?

perhaps he had easy access to burlap.

Interesting.

curious

P.S. this post is from yesterday, Oct. 23, 2012:

http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/12...medium=twitter
Quote:
Originally Posted by curious View Post
Dark Passenger:
This website links the two dump grounds to one organization that has access to burlap and leaders with abuse in their backgrounds:

http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/12...medium=twitter
The Hunting Angle

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=161555

This is the "source" thread if you will.

OMG

So now there is a VERY credible argument which ties in with the "wildlife" angle I suggested, and that is related to duck and wildfowl shooting? Having read just page one I think there's one hell of an argument to suggest the wildlife link could indeed be that his familiarity with dump sites is due to his involvement in wildfowl and bird hunting. I said before he might have a solitary hobby which is seasonal and involves wildlife - this pretty much nails it.

So what if the killer is indeed a wildfowl hunter - and therefore, the websleuths people argue, possibly a member of the South Shore Wildfowlers Association - and that explains this wildlife link?

Now all we need to do is explain his seasonality.

So two questions still remain; where are all the other bodies, and how does he share his time, and where, the rest of the year?
The logic behind his kills, and the hunting angle, suggests he has a major base on Long Island, a second home or a work property only he has access to, most likely though it is a house. He spends June - February there, nine months of the year. I doubt such a painfully solitary man would be the killer but it raises a question; what if he started dumping bodies on Ocean Parkway because a private "graveyard" he'd been using was full? Maybe the murders between 1996 and 2000 are in his back yard.

The Evolution of his Method

He tries to dispose of Jane Doe 4 in 1996 by throwing her legs, wrapped in plastic, into the Great South Bay, and dumping more parts of her on Gilgo Beach, a Joel Rifkin style "spreading" of the body parts. The legs turn up, so he changes tactics and buries them closer to home. By 2000, he's run out of room so dumps remains in Manorville, half-a-mile into the thicket. But by 2003 the access has changed so Jessica Taylor gets dumped by the roadside. Next, he decides to switch to dumping victims in the brush at Ocean Parkway, but they too end up being found in 2010.

The early victims (1996 - 2000) may just be buried in his back yard or similar. And as for other missing victims among his known active period (2000 - 2010), they are probably buried in similar deposition sites to the Ocean Parkway victims, on Long Island. But that doesn't explain why he's dumping Summer victims in that particular spot, or why Jessica Taylor was a Summer victim.

But it does seem that he has a two-phase killing spree; hidden and overt, and the overt killings actually, on reflection, seem more a desperate hunt for places to hide bodies. So where are the 2003 - 2007 bodies? From 2007 - 2010 he's hiding them on Ocean Parkway, after having tried and failed to use Manorville as a dumping ground from 2000 - 2003.

A New Theory

By now you'll have guessed how "stream-of-consciousness" this post is, but bear with me. I have a new theory. What if, and it is radical, he really is killing just once or twice a year? In the Spring or Summer he takes some time and carries out his fantasies, before the hunting season starts?

Here's his apparent sequence of deposition site choice;

1996 - 2000 - Possible private "graveyard" (4+ victims)
2000 - 2003 - Short lived Manorville deposition site (3+ victims)
2003 - 2010 - Ocean Parkway, Gilgo Beach and a missing deposition site (7+ victims)

The fact that serial killers accelerate their kills and devolve over time ties into this. His 2007 - 2010 kills were mainly whole, in burlap sacks and dumped together, and on average there were more in the 2003 - 2010 timespan than just one a year. He's certainly devolving, another sign he's in his 40s.

What I'm suggesting is actually that his pattern of killing is indeed controlled to some extent and that his erratic and adaptive choice of deposition sites might be fooling us. The seasonality and missing bodies might just be a red herring, telling us he moves around when in fact he's a full-time Long Islander.
It also suggests there are two deposition sites to find - the missing 2003 - 2007 site, and his private 1996 - 2000 graveyard. I suspect the missing "overt" dump site is probably what he's currently using now that Ocean Parkway and Gilgo Beach are not available.
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  #24  
Old 10-24-2012, 11:00 PM
DarkPassenger DarkPassenger is offline
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Something just occurred to me.
10 victims found on Ocean Parkway and Gilgo Beach don't tally with the 7 suggested above in my "one-a-year" pattern? Well discount John Doe 1 and Jane Doe 2, as well as the remains of Jane Doe 4, and you have 7 victims! John Doe 1 was a major mistake and he probably killed a genuine victim soon after to make up for it. Jane Doe 2 was a child brought by Jane Doe 3 to the killer's house out of sheer necessity. Parts of 1996 victim Jane Doe 4 were also found and were not part of this latter deposition stage.

Another thing; he could still be employed as a park ranger on Long Island, explaining his law-enforcement connection.

Last edited by DarkPassenger : 10-24-2012 at 11:05 PM.
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  #25  
Old 10-25-2012, 01:55 AM
curious curious is offline
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Originally Posted by DarkPassenger View Post
The Hunting Angle

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=161555

This is the "source" thread if you will.

OMG

So now there is a VERY credible argument which ties in with the "wildlife" angle I suggested, and that is related to duck and wildfowl shooting? Having read just page one I think there's one hell of an argument to suggest the wildlife link could indeed be that his familiarity with dump sites is due to his involvement in wildfowl and bird hunting. I said before he might have a solitary hobby which is seasonal and involves wildlife - this pretty much nails it.

So what if the killer is indeed a wildfowl hunter - and therefore, the websleuths people argue, possibly a member of the South Shore Wildfowlers Association - and that explains this wildlife link?

Now all we need to do is explain his seasonality.
Very interesting, no doubt about it. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

The link between that club and a town just 35 miles from Atlantic City the same year as the deaths occurred there is very suggestive, isn't it?

The seasonality is of the women who have been found -- not necessarily his only victims, right?

And the women went missing from Memorial Day to Labor Day, or apparently when there is no hunting. ?Maybe because of breeding season?? So they were dumped in an area where the hunters would not be out and about. Would that be how it worked?

Maybe the hunting was killing enough for him during season, then when he could not hunt, he killed women. Is that possible?

Not sure that makes sense.

And not sure why he appears to have killed just during the summer months.

Again, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

curious
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  #26  
Old 10-25-2012, 10:02 AM
Sherlock Holmes Sherlock Holmes is offline
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well if that is the case where does he use during the other seasons?
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  #27  
Old 10-25-2012, 12:47 PM
DarkPassenger DarkPassenger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curious View Post
The seasonality is of the women who have been found -- not necessarily his only victims, right?
And the women went missing from Memorial Day to Labor Day, or apparently when there is no hunting. ?Maybe because of breeding season?? So they were dumped in an area where the hunters would not be out and about. Would that be how it worked?
Maybe the hunting was killing enough for him during season, then when he could not hunt, he killed women. Is that possible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes View Post
well if that is the case where does he use during the other seasons?
Well, I was, as am sure most people are, thinking these Summer victims were just the ones we'd found and victims from the rest of the year were elsewhere. But having reconsidered it, I think it is entirely possible he is killing only once or twice per year. During 2010 he killed twice but look at the dates; 6th June 2010 and 2nd September 2010 - still just over the Summer. And since we can expect the killer to escalate maybe this is evidence of escalation but still within his pattern of killing in the Summer.

I always considered such a pattern for a serial killer unlikely until I wrote about Allan Grimson, a British serial killer who killed twice , get this - on the same day on subsequent years! 12th December 1997 and 12th December 1998. It gets creepier; the only other murder he's admitted to, but not charged with, is a missing sailor who vanished on, wait for it...12th December, this time in 1986. If he stuck to his pattern he'll have over a dozen victims.

While I think it's clear the LISK (Long Island Serial Killer) isn't doing quite the same thing, I do think he has a "hunting season" for women and limits himself as best he can to just one or, in later years, two a year. Having run the numbers in my last post, I suspect there will be two deposition sites on Long Island waiting to be found - one with at least four bodies buried there, and another similar to the Ocean Parkway site, with at least a few more.
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  #28  
Old 10-25-2012, 01:12 PM
curious curious is offline
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Quote:
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well if that is the case where does he use during the other seasons?
Hi,
We have discussed that perhaps the killer is on Long Island only during the summer and has killing fields and dumping grounds in different, probably undiscovered, areas.

One of the thoughts about the killer is that he is in a high income bracket, so that would allow for travel.

The information about the duck hunting club appears to be new and speculation, just as our best guesses on this thread are.

We're just discussing possibilities.

curious
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  #29  
Old 10-25-2012, 01:19 PM
DarkPassenger DarkPassenger is offline
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Can I just say that websleuths link is addictive

They're saying that SSWA activities are linked to both deposition sites and activities which seem to be linked to the killer; the use of the term "half-breed" in the phone call to Amanda Funderberg relates to dog-breeding, while the dismemberment method used on the victims relates to how you'd chop up a duck. Also, beheaded birds were found in Manorville and in a bag near the Ocean Parkway dump site, and the SSWA just happened to be in Atlantic City in September 2006, right before the Black Horse Pike prostitute murders. Burlap is also used by duck hunters they say. Crikey.

I think, whether the SSWA is his choice of club or not, the killer is most definitely a duck and wildfowl hunter. And I think Summer is his private hooker-hunting-season and Winter his public bird-hunting-season.
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  #30  
Old 10-25-2012, 01:59 PM
DarkPassenger DarkPassenger is offline
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http://www.newsday.com/long-island/s...1.2541830?qr=1
Finally, a decent map!
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