Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: The Nature of Evidence - by caz 4 minutes ago.
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: The Nature of Evidence - by Pierre 20 minutes ago.
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: The Nature of Evidence - by Fisherman 1 hour and 7 minutes ago.
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: The Nature of Evidence - by Fisherman 1 hour and 9 minutes ago.
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: The Nature of Evidence - by Fisherman 1 hour and 17 minutes ago.
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: The Nature of Evidence - by caz 2 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: The Nature of Evidence - (83 posts)
Mary Ann Nichols: Double throat cuts - (49 posts)
Other: Two London Murder Mysteries - (11 posts)
Motive, Method and Madness: Apron placement as intimidation? - (8 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: Mary Kellys husband - (7 posts)
Audio -- Visual: Exorcist and JTR - (7 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-31-2011, 08:07 PM
Carol Carol is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 443
Default A contender for the knife?

Hi everyone,

Last summer when we were in England on holiday I found a really great book in an Oxfam charity book shop, published in 1991. It's called 'The Victorian Catalogue of Household goods' and describes itself as 'A Complete Compendium of over five thousand items to Furnish and Decorate the Victorian Home'. It is a facsimile of a trade catalogue published by the firm of Silber & Flemming of London and Paris. The author of the Introduction to the book is Dorothy Bosomworth and it was published by the New York firm of Portland House. The catalogue was first published in 1883 and this edition facsimile dates from "the late 1880s (the exact date is not given in the original)".

The firm of Silber & Flemming was founded in London in 1856. They were manufacturers, importers, warehousemen and agents. The catalogue was "comparable to Littlewoods' or Universal Stores' current mail-order catalogues". Their London premises were situated at 60 Wood Street in the City.

I quote from the Introduction now - "Who, then, were their customers? Without surviving company records, it is impossible to form a detailed impression, but we can assume that they consisted both of retailers, such as department stores, furnishing shops and ironmongers, china, silver and glass specialists, and of corporate clients"

On page 79 I came across the following: "Hunting Knife, very superior quality, with 7-inch blade and 4-inch horn handle, diamond cut. This Knife is so constructed that the blade can be folded into the handle, where it is locked by a spring, leaving exposed 4 inches of the blade, which is protected by a best solid leather sheath".

Could this be a contender for the knife that Jack the Ripper used?

Carol
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-31-2011, 10:42 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13,841
Default getting the point

Hello Carol. It very well may be.

Is there information regarding its width? According to the inquest information, it seems that Polly and Annie were killed by long, thin knives.

A hunting or butcher's knife might work but, as observed at inquest, it would have to be well ground down.

Cheers.
LC
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-31-2011, 11:15 PM
Celesta Celesta is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: American Dog-Lover
Posts: 1,625
Default

Whether it is, or isn't, a contender, the book sounds fascinating, Carol.
__________________
"What our ancestors would really be thinking, if they were alive today, is: "Why is it so dark in here?"" From Pyramids by Sir Terry Pratchett, a British National Treasure.

__________________________________
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-01-2012, 03:03 AM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bottesford, Leicestershire
Posts: 3,582
Default

Why do we always assume that JtR carried only one knife?
__________________
Regards, Bridewell.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:28 AM
Adam Went Adam Went is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 779
Default

Certainly it's possible that Jack carried more than one knife but carrying a whole range of them might be cumbersome and not many people other than fiction writers and fantasists believe in the old Gladstone bag full of horrible instruments story.

Given the injuries inflicted on some of the victims - in particular the cuts on Eddowes' face, for instance - it would seem the knife was fairly thin and easily manouverable. Just as an uneducated guess!

Cheers,
Adam.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-01-2012, 12:02 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,465
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Went View Post
Certainly it's possible that Jack carried more than one knife but carrying a whole range of them might be cumbersome and not many people other than fiction writers and fantasists believe in the old Gladstone bag full of horrible instruments story.

Given the injuries inflicted on some of the victims - in particular the cuts on Eddowes' face, for instance - it would seem the knife was fairly thin and easily manouverable. Just as an uneducated guess!

Cheers,
Adam.
I think you should consider that some of the injuries to the face of Eddowes were as a result of her trying to prevent the killer from cutting her throat they are cuts not specific wounds that is in my opinion how the portion of her ear became detached.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:56 PM
GregBaron GregBaron is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 826
Default Throat then face...

Quote:
I think you should consider that some of the injuries to the face of Eddowes were as a result of her trying to prevent the killer from cutting her throat they are cuts not specific wounds that is in my opinion how the portion of her ear became detached.
I can't imagine her using her face to defend herself Trevor. Wouldn't you expect the hands to be cut and other evidence of a struggle?



Greg
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:30 PM
Carol Carol is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 443
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Hello Carol. It very well may be.

Is there information regarding its width? According to the inquest information, it seems that Polly and Annie were killed by long, thin knives.

A hunting or butcher's knife might work but, as observed at inquest, it would have to be well ground down.

Cheers.
LC
Hello Lynn,
No information is given about the width but there is an illustration of the knife (about two-thirds of the actual size), so I should be able to work out the width. I'll have a look after tea this evening. Should be able to let you know tomorrow.
Carol
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:38 PM
Carol Carol is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 443
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
I think you should consider that some of the injuries to the face of Eddowes were as a result of her trying to prevent the killer from cutting her throat they are cuts not specific wounds that is in my opinion how the portion of her ear became detached.
Hello Trevor,
I hadn't realised that her facial injuries could be 'defence' injuries (at least some of them). I must have missed that when I read about her. I'd just assumed from what I have read on Casebook and in books that the victims were at least unconscious before the murderer cut their throats. This makes the murders even more horrifying (if that were possible). Those poor women.
Carol
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:39 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,465
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregBaron View Post
I can't imagine her using her face to defend herself Trevor. Wouldn't you expect the hands to be cut and other evidence of a struggle?



Greg
If the killer had hold of her from behind and was trying to cut her throat I would imagine that she was trying to prevent this and therefore moving her head about frantically.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.