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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #11  
Old 09-11-2016, 01:45 PM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Incidentally, the soldier who told John Cleary about the Pinchin St. murder was said to be carrying a parcel.
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  #12  
Old 09-11-2016, 03:54 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Echo
London, U.K.
18 October 1888


A very mysterious incident, in connection with arrest of the man at King-street Police-station, Westminster, whose apprehension was yesterday announced in The Echo, has transpired this morning. It appears that on Monday the man went into the shop of Messrs. Bellamy Bros., Railway-approach, Charing-cross, and after a brief but somewhat incoherent chat with Mr. Batchelor, the manager, he suddenly placed a black bag on the counter, and left the shop. The incident has come to the knowledge of the police authorities, but up to the present they thought it prudent to regard the affair as a secret. The bag contained a razor, a dagger (which bore more or less recent marks of blood stains), several miscellaneous but almost valueless odds and ends, together with a broken piece of looking-glass and a small piece of soap. It is regarded as somewhat suspicious that these latter articles are similar to those found on the Whitechapel victims.
MR. BATCHELOR'S STATEMENT
The shiny black bag and its contents were inspected this morning by an Echo reporter, who called at Messrs. Bellamy's in order to verify certain reports respecting their strange visitor. Mr. R. Bachelor, the manager, made the following statement:- "He was such a mysterious-looking person that I could not make him out at all, but it was not until after he left the shop that it somehow occurred to me that his mind was unhinged from some cause or other, and then the Whitechapel murders and the affair at Whitehall came across my mind. It was from reading the special edition of last night's Echo that I felt convinced the black bag was an incident worth mentioning. Well, as soon as the man came into the shop he took out a pencil and commenced to write some words which no one could read. Then he straightened himself up, remarked 'You must not be surprised to hear I'm Jack the Ripper - I'm a most mysterious man' and darted out of the shop. He made use of the expression, 'I'm used to cutting people up, and can put them together again. The police are all disguised, and wherever I go I meet them.' He looked to me like a doctor or doctor's assistant, but was rather shabby." The razor and dagger found in the bag have been examined by Dr. Bond.


Then this related story.

20th October 1888 Hull and Lincolnshire Times

IMPORTANT STATEMENT BY A SUSPECT
The Press Association says, much importance is attached by the police to the arrest made at King-street Police Station, Whitehall. On Tuesday morning the man entered the above named station about nine o’clock, and complained of having lost a black bag. While the officials were taking notes of his case, he commenced talking about the Whitechapel Murders, and offered to cut off the sergeant’s head, and other rambling nonsense. It will be remembered that several people have testified to seeing a man with a black bag in the region of the murders, and who has not been traced. The fact was at once remembered by the police, and the man was further questioned. In answer to the inquiry as to his business, he said he studied for some years for the medical profession, but gave it up for engineering, and that he had been stopping for some nights in a coffee house. His manner then became so strange that Dr. Bond, divisional surgeon, was sent for to examine the man. The doctor subsequently gave it as his opinion that the man was a very dangerous lunatic of homicidal tendency, and as his appearance somewhat tallied with that published of the man who was seen with the murdered woman, he was removed to Bow-street. But before being taken thither photographs of his person were taken. He was also asked to write his name, and it is stated his writing is somewhat similar to that of the letters received by the police and others. He gave his age as 67, but it is said he looks a full twenty years younger. The police are endeavouring to trace his antecedents and movements for the past few weeks.
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  #13  
Old 09-11-2016, 04:16 PM
DirectorDave DirectorDave is offline
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Quote:
In the case of Kelly he would need a clean up more then any of the others,
Regards Richard.
Hi Richard,

I think your cleaning material has some merit, running with that idea we are dealing with someone with forethought and who is practical. Do you think the most practical method for him to mutilate Mary would be him striping naked, perhaps carefully folding his clothes?

Obviously he would still need to clean up afterwards, with we can assume hot water from the kettle and other items of clothing or bedding within the room.
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  #14  
Old 09-12-2016, 07:36 AM
YomRippur YomRippur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirectorDave View Post
Hi Richard,

I think your cleaning material has some merit, running with that idea we are dealing with someone with forethought and who is practical. Do you think the most practical method for him to mutilate Mary would be him striping naked, perhaps carefully folding his clothes?

Obviously he would still need to clean up afterwards, with we can assume hot water from the kettle and other items of clothing or bedding within the room.
I can certainly believe the killer might have removed at least some of his clothing (or used the victim's), perhaps to use as window curtains. The "large fire" he started might have emitted strong light that needed to be blocked from shining all over Miller's Court through the windows. One of the windows already had a curtain (as Thomas Bowyer noticed), but there was also a much larger window next to it. A "long overcoat" would have been handy.

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  #15  
Old 09-12-2016, 08:16 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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I believe both windows would have had curtains, but the police removed them to let some light into the room. According to the Star 10 Nov interview;

"Mrs. Prater took advantage of a journey for some water to peep through the window for which, when the door was broken open, the curtains were torn down."
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  #16  
Old 09-12-2016, 10:21 AM
YomRippur YomRippur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
I believe both windows would have had curtains, but the police removed them to let some light into the room. According to the Star 10 Nov interview;

"Mrs. Prater took advantage of a journey for some water to peep through the window for which, when the door was broken open, the curtains were torn down."
Some eyewitnesses said they could see light coming from Mary's windows. At that time, Mary was serving a client and her curtains were probably closed. That means even when the curtains were closed, light was still visible from the outside. So the killer might have wanted to use additional clothing or whatever to block the light.

Another question is that could the room still be lit, albeit in low light, and no light would be visible from the outside? George Hutchinson said he left Miller's Court at 2:45am and Mary and her client were still in the room. Then Mary Ann Cox said at 3am the room was dark. Could the potential killer still be inside the room at 3am? If he was, what would they be doing in total darkness? Or could there still be a little light in the room, so little that Cox couldn't see it? Or maybe the killer left Mary's room after she had gone to sleep and turned out the light, then come back later and do the deed? Some ear-witnesses did hear footsteps leaving and entering the court. If that was the case, then the killer once again had a narrow time window to work with: leaving the court in the mere 15-minute window between Hutchinson leaving and Cox arriving. So I'm inclined to believe that the killer was in Mary's room *the whole time*. If that was the case, then he would have to either spend some time in the room in total darkness, or have some very low light source (which Cox couldn't detect from the outside). He found the light insufficient, so he started a fire. Another pertinent question is that could he have left the room before the fire finished burning? Staying in the room while a bright fire was burning would have been risky.
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