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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #1  
Old 01-20-2010, 04:02 PM
JTRSickert JTRSickert is offline
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Default Time Pattern of the Killings

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before in the forums, but has anyone ever thought about the pattern that seems to emerge with the murders? It seems like JTR prefers to kill at the beginning and end of each month starting in August through November. Now, granted. the dates don't match up exactly apart, but they are pretty darn close. For the sake of argument, we have to assume that Martha Tabram is a Ripper victim, but if we do, we see the pattern.

Murders occuring in the beginning of the month.

1. Martha Tabram-murdered 7 August 1888

2. Annie Chapman-murdered 8 September 1888

3. Mary Kelly-murdered 9 November 1888

Murders occuring at the end of the month

1. Mary Ann Nichols-murdered 31 August 1888

2. Elizabeth Stride (?)/Catherine Eddowes-30 September 1888

Now, I know what immediatedly everyone will notice. There are no murders in October; hence, no pattern. However, perhaps the killer was not in London at that time or decided to take a break because the heat was turned up by the press/police after the double homicide. And, in November, he just decided to pick up where he left off. It is interesting to note the killings that take place in the early times of the month follow a sequential order (7, 8, & 9) and the murders at the end of the month are practically exactly one month apart. Does this mean anything? If so, what? Also, does the pattern show us when his bloodlust was heightened and cooled (beginning and end of each month) Even if there is no pattern, it is still pretty interesting.
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  #2  
Old 01-20-2010, 04:19 PM
smezenen smezenen is offline
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I haven't given much thought to a pattern, but another thought did cross my mind while reading your post.

Here are the 2 things you said that started the little wheel turning in my head.
1-You say we have to assume Tabram is a ripper victim, (I’m still on the fence there)
2-You state “no murders in October hence no pattern”.

Ok, so here is the thought, (I’m ready for everyone to rip this apart because I know its speculation) if Tabram is an un-attributed ripper victim could there be others maybe during the month of October and possibly even in other cities that were never connected to, or attributed to the Ripper that if attributed would help show a clear pattern?
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  #3  
Old 01-20-2010, 04:47 PM
DVV DVV is offline
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Hi JTRS,

I think the time-pattern, if there is any, has more to do with weekends and bank holidays.

Amitiés,
David
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  #4  
Old 01-20-2010, 04:47 PM
The Good Michael The Good Michael is offline
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About patterns: Why would a date be more important than a time? Why would one location be more important than another? How does an indoor murder fit in? Or does it? Why this organ or that organ? One can discard a ton of things to look for a non-inclusive pattern in any direction one wants to look. But why? If you don't know why he did what he did, it's impossible to discern a coherent pattern that answers all these questions. Why is that, do you suppose? Well, it's quite probably because a lot of randomness was involved.

Possible randomness factors:

1. Work schedule (if he worked)
2. Ability to sneak away from family members(if he had them)
3. Money for drinking (liquid courage)
4. Money to show victims (if this is what he used to gain trust)
5. Shore leave (assuming he worked a ship)
6. Inability to find a suitable victim (solitary, age, location et.al.)

So, if we know motive, and we know all these other factors, maybe there's a pattern to be seen. Then again, the pattern may just be a combination of randomness factors listed or unlisted and have nothing to do with anything but his opportunities.

This is what I'm opting for.

Cheers,

Mike
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  #5  
Old 01-20-2010, 04:56 PM
JTRSickert JTRSickert is offline
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Maybe Ivor Edwards will use this post to further his Vesica Piscis/Black magic theory. LOL
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  #6  
Old 01-22-2010, 10:00 AM
loneassassin loneassassin is offline
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I was looking at the dates a while back and like other "occult crimes" (e.g. Son of Sam, Zodiac, etc) I think that there is something to them, but exactly what I cannot be totally sure.

But, what I noticed was that Jack the Ripper committed his crimes on the following dates:

1) Nichols--August 31
2) Chapman--September 8
3) Stride & Eddowes--September 30
4) Kelly--November 11

1) 8+31=39
2) 9+8=17
3) 9+30=39 (again)
4) 11+9=20

So what I noticed was that these dates include numbers that have been associated with occult philosophy for a long time now. For instance, both 1 and 3, when you add the numbers total 39 and this number according to mysticism (e.g. Kabbalah, Masonry etc) has traditionally held a certain occult, even sinister, significance to it. For no. 4 you need only google the numbers together to find out a wide array of opinions as to its meaning (especially after 9/11). So I'm sure there's more to the picture than meets the eye but I definitely believe that it's no coincidence he--or they--chose the dates that he did to commit his killing spree.
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:48 AM
E.J.H. E.J.H. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTRSickert View Post
It is interesting to note the killings that take place in the early times of the month follow a sequential order (7, 8, & 9) and the murders at the end of the month are practically exactly one month apart.
Maybe there were number 1,2,3,4,5 and 6 that were unnoticed ?
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  #8  
Old 06-18-2016, 12:21 PM
MrE MrE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTRSickert View Post
I'm not sure if this has been brought up before in the forums, but has anyone ever thought about the pattern that seems to emerge with the murders? It seems like JTR prefers to kill at the beginning and end of each month starting in August through November. Now, granted. the dates don't match up exactly apart, but they are pretty darn close. For the sake of argument, we have to assume that Martha Tabram is a Ripper victim, but if we do, we see the pattern.

Murders occuring in the beginning of the month.

1. Martha Tabram-murdered 7 August 1888

2. Annie Chapman-murdered 8 September 1888

3. Mary Kelly-murdered 9 November 1888

Murders occuring at the end of the month

1. Mary Ann Nichols-murdered 31 August 1888

2. Elizabeth Stride (?)/Catherine Eddowes-30 September 1888

Now, I know what immediatedly everyone will notice. There are no murders in October; hence, no pattern. However, perhaps the killer was not in London at that time or decided to take a break because the heat was turned up by the press/police after the double homicide. And, in November, he just decided to pick up where he left off. It is interesting to note the killings that take place in the early times of the month follow a sequential order (7, 8, & 9) and the murders at the end of the month are practically exactly one month apart. Does this mean anything? If so, what? Also, does the pattern show us when his bloodlust was heightened and cooled (beginning and end of each month) Even if there is no pattern, it is still pretty interesting.
Hello all (my first post so please be gentle)

I noticed and wondered exactly the same thing about the dates (and Tabram).
Had the murders continued, should there have been further victims on 30th November, 10th December, 31st December etc?

Also the pattern in dates appear to follow a 'two week on, two week off' pattern. Kind of like some strange shift-work going on maybe?

As for the absence of atrocities during October, maybe he was on holiday (heck even serial killers must need a rest). I'm not sure what type of vacation a serial killer might decide to take though. Perhaps he wondered if a visit to Dr Kellog and partake of his wondrous flakes of corn would alleviate his strange addictions.

Maybe he didn't get delivery of corn flakes in time to save MJK, but they came thru in time to cure him by the time the next date with a loose woman came around.

Who knew a cereal could kill a serial killer?

But anyhow, I agree with the date pattern etc. killers of this ilk do attribute special significance to certain things and there is sometimes order to their madness.

I tend to agree with Tabram being an early victim, it wasn't exactly the same, but maybe he hadn't perfected his 'skills' hence E.J.H. Post could also be true. Could be that Nichols was done with his new knife which subsequently became his weapon of choice (a reason I'm not sure Stride was a Ripper kill - different knife was used)

Great forum btw.
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  #9  
Old 06-18-2016, 12:45 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTRSickert View Post
I'm not sure if this has been brought up before in the forums, but has anyone ever thought about the pattern that seems to emerge with the murders? It seems like JTR prefers to kill at the beginning and end of each month starting in August through November. Now, granted. the dates don't match up exactly apart, but they are pretty darn close. For the sake of argument, we have to assume that Martha Tabram is a Ripper victim, but if we do, we see the pattern.

Murders occuring in the beginning of the month.

1. Martha Tabram-murdered 7 August 1888

2. Annie Chapman-murdered 8 September 1888

3. Mary Kelly-murdered 9 November 1888

Murders occuring at the end of the month

1. Mary Ann Nichols-murdered 31 August 1888

2. Elizabeth Stride (?)/Catherine Eddowes-30 September 1888

Now, I know what immediatedly everyone will notice. There are no murders in October; hence, no pattern. However, perhaps the killer was not in London at that time or decided to take a break because the heat was turned up by the press/police after the double homicide. And, in November, he just decided to pick up where he left off. It is interesting to note the killings that take place in the early times of the month follow a sequential order (7, 8, & 9) and the murders at the end of the month are practically exactly one month apart. Does this mean anything? If so, what? Also, does the pattern show us when his bloodlust was heightened and cooled (beginning and end of each month) Even if there is no pattern, it is still pretty interesting.
Hi,

the time pattern for the C-5 is close to three critical points in time:

Critical point 1. The beginning of September: Nichols, Chapman
Critical point 2. The beginning of October: Stride, Eddowes
Critical point 3. The beginning of November: Kelly

It does not matter if a murder is committed in the end of August or in the end of September, since those dates are connected to expected events in the beginning of the next month. So the pattern is:

31 August - beginning September - 8 September
30 September - beginning October
9 November - beginning November

Regards, Pierre

Last edited by Pierre : 06-18-2016 at 12:47 PM.
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  #10  
Old 06-18-2016, 01:04 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Welcome, MrE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrE View Post
Also the pattern in dates appear to follow a 'two week on, two week off' pattern. Kind of like some strange shift-work going on maybe?
Not so strange.....there was speculation at the time (and since) that the killer arrived on a regularly scheduled cattle-boat or similar.

Quote:
Could be that Nichols was done with his new knife which subsequently became his weapon of choice (a reason I'm not sure Stride was a Ripper kill - different knife was used)
Interesting....how do you know what knife was used for killing Stride, and how was it different to the one(s) used on the others?
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