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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Bury, W.H.

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  #511  
Old 08-08-2017, 02:19 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by John G View Post
Paul Harrison, an expert eviscerater, also consulted by Trevor Marriott (he assisted Dr Calder), observed: "To work in such an intricate manner, and to remove the kidney carefully and the uterus without damaging the surrounding tissue would be very difficult."
He did damage the tissue surrounding the kidney and uterus, though. There were evidently accidental punctures/stabs to the organs immediately in the vicinity of the left kidney, only part of the uterus was excised (with a stump left in the body), and Eddowes' descending/sigmoid colon had been cut.
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In fact, Dr Calder and Paul Garrison, in controlled experiment, attempted to remove a kidney using a six inch Victorian knife. Having made an initial incision, similar to the one inflicted on Eddowes, they found it impossible to remove the kidney with that size of knife.
We don't know exactly what knife the Ripper used.
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The problem was not only with the knife itself, but also on account of the abdominal cavity filing with blood (in the case of Eddowes there would have been even more blood as she'd just been killed.
There would have been less blood, as she'd had her neck slashed open. I've pointed this out to Trevor in the past; his experiments, though commendable, really ought to have replicated the conditions as closely as possible, but they didn't. Having said that, it would be unethical to exsanguinate a living being by slitting their throat, so it's probably just as well they didn't try!
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And the perpetrator had the added disadvantages of working in darkness and under time pressure.
I'll grant you that, but I'm pretty sure a surgeon/medical-student would have coped much better. For one thing, a person with actual "skill" wouldn't have faffed around with that enormous incision from sternum to pelvis, and hoiking all those intestines out of the way, merely to get to the uterus. (I know he took the kidney as well, but he didn't do that with Chapman, and she was disembowelled to the same degree.)

Anyway, how does all this relate to Bury?
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  #512  
Old 08-09-2017, 06:00 AM
curious curious is offline
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Which ties into my theory that Bury's mind was unraveling. I'm looking for a logical explanation for Bury as the Ripper. Killing his wife might have been the last straw, hence his decision to visit the police instead of making a break for it.
Hi, Harry D,
If Bury were JtR, maybe he did not think he had anywhere to run.

All the other women had been strangers, anonymous, and could not be tied to him. He could leave them and walk away, and the women could not be traced to him.

However, once he killed Ellen, everyone had to know who he was. Perhaps he killed her in a drunken rage, began the mutilation and came to himself, which accounts for the mutilations being less. Plus, she was his wife. Wouldn't that likely make a difference? Perhaps since he knew he was the Ripper, it never occurred to him that the cops would not immediately recognize his work.

So, once the Ripper had killed Ellen, she was tied to him and now everyone would know who the Ripper was. They knew what he looked like.

He and Ellen had moved to Dundee, and even there people were talking about the Ripper. Bury seemed to always think himself more than he was. If he was known in Dundee, is it possible he thought JtR was known everywhere -- that there was no where to run?

So, he sat in that foul basement and pondered. As he thought, he drank, he returned to the corpse, he came to, he pondered. Perhaps he had outsmarted the police before and thought he could again.

In just the past week or so, I've read of a serial killer who got away with murder for years -- until he killed his girlfriend.

BTW, I don't think he intended to kill Ellen. He brought her to Dundee with him because she knew who he was. However, the big boxes he had constructed were for show -- to make people think they had a lot more than they did. Today, people with the need to display do so with expensive luggage -- Bury used extra big trunks.

Just my musings,

curious

Last edited by curious : 08-09-2017 at 06:05 AM.
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  #513  
Old 08-09-2017, 06:48 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is online now
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Originally Posted by curious View Post
Hi, Harry D,
If Bury were JtR, maybe he did not think he had anywhere to run.

All the other women had been strangers, anonymous, and could not be tied to him. He could leave them and walk away, and the women could not be traced to him.

However, once he killed Ellen, everyone had to know who he was. Perhaps he killed her in a drunken rage, began the mutilation and came to himself, which accounts for the mutilations being less. Plus, she was his wife. Wouldn't that likely make a difference? Perhaps since he knew he was the Ripper, it never occurred to him that the cops would not immediately recognize his work.

So, once the Ripper had killed Ellen, she was tied to him and now everyone would know who the Ripper was. They knew what he looked like.

He and Ellen had moved to Dundee, and even there people were talking about the Ripper. Bury seemed to always think himself more than he was. If he was known in Dundee, is it possible he thought JtR was known everywhere -- that there was no where to run?

So, he sat in that foul basement and pondered. As he thought, he drank, he returned to the corpse, he came to, he pondered. Perhaps he had outsmarted the police before and thought he could again.

In just the past week or so, I've read of a serial killer who got away with murder for years -- until he killed his girlfriend.

BTW, I don't think he intended to kill Ellen. He brought her to Dundee with him because she knew who he was. However, the big boxes he had constructed were for show -- to make people think they had a lot more than they did. Today, people with the need to display do so with expensive luggage -- Bury used extra big trunks.

Just my musings,

curious
I like your musings.

plus if the local brats had scribbled that graffiti on his door-might have lead to some what your talking about.
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  #514  
Old 08-11-2017, 09:33 AM
johns johns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curious View Post

In just the past week or so, I've read of a serial killer who got away with murder for years -- until he killed his girlfriend.
Hi.

This story sounds very interesting. Can you point me to more information on it please? Thanks
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  #515  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:01 AM
curious curious is offline
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Hi.

This story sounds very interesting. Can you point me to more information on it please? Thanks
Hi, Johns,
Sorry. Should have documented that. I know better.

Was surfing at the time and my brain just tucked that away -- you know how brains work.

http://listverse.com/2015/10/31/10-s...haul-truckers/

Keith Hunter Jesperson

He also wrote graffiti and communicated with the media.

Here is another interesting case of a serial killer who unraveled and got careless, killing his roommates, one of whom was a cousin.

His MO changed drastically when he killed the people he knew. Unless the authorities find other killings, he was dormant for a long time.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...aths/73904402/

curious

Last edited by curious : 08-11-2017 at 10:08 AM.
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  #516  
Old 08-12-2017, 06:30 AM
johns johns is offline
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Thanks for that. Very interesting.
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  #517  
Old 08-27-2017, 12:17 PM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
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I still think nothing rules Bury out and a lot rules him in.
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  #518  
Old 08-28-2017, 04:20 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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I still think nothing rules Bury out and a lot rules him in.
If it weren't for Alice McKenzie, I'd be fairly set on Bury as the Ripper. However, he remains the best named suspect we have on the balance of evidence.
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  #519  
Old 08-28-2017, 04:47 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is online now
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If it weren't for Alice McKenzie, I'd be fairly set on Bury as the Ripper. However, he remains the best named suspect we have on the balance of evidence.
Agree. Mackenzies the stickler for me too, as I think she was probably a ripper victim.
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #520  
Old 08-28-2017, 07:52 AM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
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Agree. Mackenzies the stickler for me too, as I think she was probably a ripper victim.
Why the massive gap between Kelly and Mackenzie then?
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