Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Doctors and Coroners: Baxter's influence on Ripper lore - by Sam Flynn 15 minutes ago.
Doctors and Coroners: Baxter's influence on Ripper lore - by Michael W Richards 23 minutes ago.
Kosminski, Aaron: My theory on Kosminski - by S.Brett 1 hour and 24 minutes ago.
Doctors and Coroners: Baxter's influence on Ripper lore - by Robert St Devil 4 hours ago.
Doctors and Coroners: Baxter's influence on Ripper lore - by Sam Flynn 4 hours ago.
Doctors and Coroners: Baxter's influence on Ripper lore - by Robert St Devil 5 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Doctors and Coroners: Baxter's influence on Ripper lore - (11 posts)
Kosminski, Aaron: My theory on Kosminski - (7 posts)
Non-Fiction: Elizabeth Stride and Jack the Ripper: The Life and Death of the Reputed Third Victim. - (2 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: How about the "Bad Cop" ??? - (2 posts)
Shades of Whitechapel: Caught!? Long Island Serial Killer suspect - (2 posts)
Motive, Method and Madness: Was Annie Chapman a rotund woman? - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-18-2016, 11:01 AM
Sleuth1888 Sleuth1888 is offline
Constable
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 74
Default Reliability of Profiling

Recently I've come across something that has led me to question the reliability of any modern day profiles of Jack the Ripper.

One profile said that Jack was a "charmer" you used his smooth talking personality to flirt with and lure his victims into his clutches. The profile said he would appear well spoken, calm, friendly and there would be nothing at all out of the ordinary when approaching this type of man.

The other profile said that Jack was a socially inept, shy, introverted guy with a huge chip on his shoulder. This profile also said that because of his complete lack of social skills he would wait for the women to initiate contact and leave it up to them. This was after he had his one or two pints in the pubs to "relax" him.

So which one is it? Two profiles which are worlds apart, poles apart even. This is beyond a joke how can we find this man if we can't even agree on how me might have been as a person?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-18-2016, 11:55 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleuth1888 View Post
Recently I've come across something that has led me to question the reliability of any modern day profiles of Jack the Ripper.

One profile said that Jack was a "charmer" you used his smooth talking personality to flirt with and lure his victims into his clutches. The profile said he would appear well spoken, calm, friendly and there would be nothing at all out of the ordinary when approaching this type of man.

The other profile said that Jack was a socially inept, shy, introverted guy with a huge chip on his shoulder. This profile also said that because of his complete lack of social skills he would wait for the women to initiate contact and leave it up to them. This was after he had his one or two pints in the pubs to "relax" him.

So which one is it? Two profiles which are worlds apart, poles apart even. This is beyond a joke how can we find this man if we can't even agree on how me might have been as a person?
Hi,

there is research showing that profiling models are not reliable. One can not start with the assumptions of profiling to find Jack the Ripper. Instead, one should analyse the historical sources.

Regards, Pierre
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-18-2016, 03:34 PM
Aldebaran Aldebaran is offline
*
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 128
Default

What kind of guy do you have to be with a prostitute as long as you have money? Certainly, they don't expect Prince Charming. They must get shy and introverted a lot more than somebody oozing charm. The actual outward personality of the Ripper had no more to do with why he did what he did than his appearance. After all, serial killer Ted Bundy was actually handsome, intelligent, and charming enough. It was no doubt how he grew up that made him what he was--and I mean both Ted and Jack.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-26-2017, 09:56 AM
YomRippur YomRippur is offline
Constable
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 87
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleuth1888 View Post
Recently I've come across something that has led me to question the reliability of any modern day profiles of Jack the Ripper.

One profile said that Jack was a "charmer" you used his smooth talking personality to flirt with and lure his victims into his clutches. The profile said he would appear well spoken, calm, friendly and there would be nothing at all out of the ordinary when approaching this type of man.

The other profile said that Jack was a socially inept, shy, introverted guy with a huge chip on his shoulder. This profile also said that because of his complete lack of social skills he would wait for the women to initiate contact and leave it up to them. This was after he had his one or two pints in the pubs to "relax" him.

So which one is it? Two profiles which are worlds apart, poles apart even. This is beyond a joke how can we find this man if we can't even agree on how me might have been as a person?
Three things:

1. You should only give credence to profiles written by people who are actually good at profiling, such as the FBI (see their profile on JTR here).

2. The two contradictory profiles you mentioned could both be valid, as the appearance JTR projected to his victims might not have been his NORMAL, EVERYDAY appearance. To his victims at the time of the killings, he might not have looked out of ordinary. But privately, he might have had poor hygiene, awkward and asocial behavior, etc., things that would have made him stand out. That is why it is also believed that he lived alone and was a loner, and thus not too many people saw his real self.

3. His "charming" ways might have been overstated, as JTR might not have been always successful in soliciting women. Some women might have been more alert than others, and was able to detect something out of the ordinary from him. Note that JTR killed only prostitutes that were drunk, weak, old, and/or even dying from terminal illnesses, as those women were probably the least alert and discriminating.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-07-2017, 03:29 PM
Xoferbean01 Xoferbean01 is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 2
Default

Profiling is a very valuable tool in ascertaining what "type" of suspect you are looking for but without a suspect in mind to begin with it's not that useful.

The source of the profile is important - anything from the FBI BSU is more reliable than say one that your Aunt did.

However, the main thing that can make a profile inconsistent or unreliable is the evidence used to make the profile. If assumptions or speculation are used the profile is likely to go in the wrong direction.

A good example of this is the child murders in West Memphis, Arkansas. Famed profiler John Douglas originally stated that he believed cults or Satanic activity could be involved due to what were perceived to be ritualistic genital mutilations on the victims. This was information he was provided by an unreliable coroner. Years later when the evidence was re-examined a different pathologist came to the conclusion that those mutiliations weren't ritualistic at all and were actually the result of animal activity that took place where the bodies had been dumped and were not part of the crimes at all. With this new information anything about ritualistic mutilations was removed from Douglas' report and he revised his profile to someone who the victims probably knew and it was totally different. He was only working with the information he was provided by the investigation and he had to trust that those investigators knew what they were doing and that their evidence was valid.

With JtR you can find similar inconsistencies on inquest reports. Did the killer have anatomical knowledge? Did he have medical knowledge? Did he show evidence of being butcher? All of these comments have been unsubstantiated and not been viewed as reliable but you can see how if somebody creating a profile took the coroner's word that the killer had medical knowledge then that would drastically reduce the scope of the profile and focus on a smaller number of suspects that could quite easily be incorrect purely because of the initial unreliable piece of evidence that went into creating the profile.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-08-2017, 04:21 AM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,560
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleuth1888 View Post
Recently I've come across something that has led me to question the reliability of any modern day profiles of Jack the Ripper.

One profile said that Jack was a "charmer" you used his smooth talking personality to flirt with and lure his victims into his clutches. The profile said he would appear well spoken, calm, friendly and there would be nothing at all out of the ordinary when approaching this type of man.

The other profile said that Jack was a socially inept, shy, introverted guy with a huge chip on his shoulder. This profile also said that because of his complete lack of social skills he would wait for the women to initiate contact and leave it up to them. This was after he had his one or two pints in the pubs to "relax" him.

So which one is it? Two profiles which are worlds apart, poles apart even. This is beyond a joke how can we find this man if we can't even agree on how me might have been as a person?
Surely it depends on the profiler?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-08-2017, 04:35 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,142
Default

The trouble with using profiling methodologies here is that its often done with a flawed, preconceived victims list. Explanations about the deviations from everything to skill set and probable objectives don't seem to be obstacles to these folks. They'll say that based on modern day serial killers research we can see that killers often change weapons, victims, their methodology, and in many of those cases it was because they sought to deviate from previous patterns to confuse any investigation.

What we have here is a group, much larger than 5, that is comprised of murdered street women many of whom had to resort to solicitation for food and shelter. The ages range from mid twenties to almost 60. They are killed in a variety of ways. Some strongly resemble others. Some may have been done in a particular way to confuse the investigations.

There is no profile unless you have a highly probable list to work with.
__________________
Michael Richards
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.