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  #11  
Old 11-02-2017, 06:18 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
yup. an obvious difference.

however, since its possibly the first kill (if it was the ripper) then the changes later could be perfecting his MO. also theirs the possibility it could have been a trigger kill-as in he really hadn't set out to kill that night.


we also need to keep in mind that he may have spent considerable time with Stride ala peaked cap man. and that he and Kelly might have known each other and or if the ripper was blotchy they obviously hung out for a while in public before the kill.
I agree, AN

.. and someone may have been buying Eddowes drinks that Sat afternoon.
Nichols seemed to know where she could get her lodging money and McKenzie was in a rush somewhere when she was last seen alive
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  #12  
Old 11-02-2017, 06:26 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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we also need to keep in mind that he may have spent considerable time with Stride ala peaked cap man. and that he and Kelly might have known each other and or if the ripper was blotchy they obviously hung out for a while in public before the kill.
But not in the direct and intimate company of two others, at least not in the case of Stride. As to Blotchy we don't know, but nobody else came forward to witness their assignation, either as drinking partners or unconnected observers.
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  #13  
Old 11-02-2017, 06:34 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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But not in the direct and intimate company of two others, at least not in the case of Stride. As to Blotchy we don't know, but nobody else came forward to witness their assignation, either as drinking partners or unconnected observers.
Hi Gareth

We really have no idea if the pair of soldiers seen at 2am were the same ones that were with Poll and Martha earlier.
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  #14  
Old 11-02-2017, 06:56 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Hi Gareth

We really have no idea if the pair of soldiers seen at 2am were the same ones that were with Poll and Martha earlier.
or even if the soldiers with Poll and Martha included Marthas killer.
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #15  
Old 11-02-2017, 07:00 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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But not in the direct and intimate company of two others, at least not in the case of Stride. As to Blotchy we don't know, but nobody else came forward to witness their assignation, either as drinking partners or unconnected observers.
Hi Sam
yes but you originally said:

Quote:
open courtship of a victim
which is what I responded to, and showed.

but please continue with your usual changing of goal posts and resorting to smaller and smaller differences until we are arguing definitions, semantics and whos English is better.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline

Last edited by Abby Normal : 11-02-2017 at 07:10 AM.
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  #16  
Old 11-02-2017, 07:12 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Nothing I said contradicted what I originally said, nor, actually, your response to it, Abby. Tabram was drinking with her killer (in this scenario), in the immediate company of TWO other people, one of whom was her friend; that's what I meant by "open courtship", not just that they were in a public house. This "foursome" setup did not apply in the case of Stride and, as far as we know, Kelly.
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  #17  
Old 11-02-2017, 07:25 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Nothing I said contradicted what I originally said, nor, actually, your response to it, Abby. Tabram was drinking with her killer (in this scenario), in the immediate company of TWO other people, one of whom was her friend; that's what I meant by "open courtship", not just that they were in a public house. This "foursome" setup did not apply in the case of Stride and, as far as we know, Kelly.
who cares if it was a foursome, a two some or a friggen ten some!

you said

Quote:
open courtship of a victim
I responded by showing later examples of this. and then you resort to the "foursome" nonsense.

your changing the goal posts. your wrong. admit it for once.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #18  
Old 11-02-2017, 08:03 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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I am NOT changing the goalposts. I'm explaining what I meant and adding some additional detail for the purposes of clarification. In short, there were two levels of "open courtship" going on in Tabram's case. What I said is true, and what you said was also true.
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 11-02-2017 at 08:05 AM.
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  #19  
Old 11-02-2017, 08:41 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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I agree, AN

.. and someone may have been buying Eddowes drinks that Sat afternoon.
Nichols seemed to know where she could get her lodging money and McKenzie was in a rush somewhere when she was last seen alive
The value of the peaked cap man in the Stride case is wholly reliant on the believability of the witness account, something that apparently wasn't valuable enough to warrant as much as a margin note at the Inquest. I would think its a given someone bought Kate drinks, and she is in jail long before any street walkers started their businesses up for the night. Why would someone buy her drinks if not... a) at the very least an acquaintance, or b) he is trying to get her drunk for some reason. My bet would be that he was trying to find out how much she knew, in relation to her claim to her ex landlady about giving the Police a name she believed was the killer at large. Polly seemed to believe her doss would come from soliciting, since she had made and spent her bed money a few times already.

I agree with whats been put forward about the probability that if there were 2 soldiers it wasnt the ones that Pearly saw with Polly much earlier that eve.
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  #20  
Old 11-02-2017, 08:43 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
I am NOT changing the goalposts. I'm explaining what I meant and adding some additional detail for the purposes of clarification. In short, there were two levels of "open courtship" going on in Tabram's case. What I said is true, and what you said was also true.
yes. OK then I can agree with that. Thanks.


none the less, with the examples I provided its still an example of "open courtship" and while I would agree with you that the foursome scenario is definitely a "level" up than the examples I said, IMHO I don't see it as being so drastic a change as what he may have been doing with Stride and Kelly. certainly not so much as to rule him out as being the ripper.

maybe, as most serial killers do, as they progress they change their MO slightly-so maybe he realized that that "level" of socializing was too dangerous.

especially if, as the tabram/soldier/poll/ line up etc. might have gotten a little too close to him.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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