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  #11  
Old 10-03-2017, 09:55 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Re the Black dahlia and torso case. Not related.

IMHO the probable Cleveland butcher was Dr. Sweeney.

Wilson is a nebulous suspect at best-a modern suspect as a result of a Black dahlia suspect book, in which many basic facts are wrong. typical BS.
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  #12  
Old 10-03-2017, 01:27 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Default Fake Research?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockySullivan View Post
Thanks Pcdunn, yea I've heard of him before but the claim that he was a suspect in the Cleveland torso murders before the black dahlia was what I'm skeptical of. It's on the unc.edu link you posted. " He was originally a suspect in the Cleveland Torso Murders case" Which doesn't mean it isn't bullshit either but also makes me wonder
Hi, Rocky,

The Wiki article said he was never suspected in the Cleveland Torso Murders case, until a book was written claiming this, which is what Abby also says.

Usually I'd tell our patrons to rely more on websites with ".edu" domains as more likely to have better information-- but as your example shows, perhaps not so much.
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  #13  
Old 10-31-2017, 10:38 AM
barnflatwyngarde barnflatwyngarde is offline
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A while ago I said that I would post a quick review of “Black Dahlia, Red Rose” by Piu Eatwell when I had finished it.

Well, I’ve now finished it, so, here we go.

I will resist the temptation to try and do a full review, but rather to give a thumbnail sketch of the book. I am sure that Paul Begg will probably review the book in a forthcoming “Ripperologist”, and I for one will be keen to hear what he make of Ms Eatwell’s book.

It becomes very clear early on in the book, that Eatwell has started from the premise that the murderer is Leslie Dillon, and works backwards from there.
Never a good move in a true crime book.

One of the major problem in the Dahlia case is the fact that the official autopsy report has never been officially released.
There are various documents on the web which claim to be official report, but they vary widely in their style and content, so we are whistling in the dark with regard to what injuries were inflicted on Elizabeth Short.

Some reports claim that the body was covered in cigarette burns, some make no mention of this. Some reports say that Elizabeth was forced to eat excrement, likewise this is debated on other sites and in other books.
The author refers to the murderer having shaved the victims pubic hair, and later in the book she makes the claim that the murderer had torn out the victims pubic hair.
The problem with this claim is that according to photographs of the body, it appears that Elizabeth Short's pubic hair was untouched.

There is a ludicrous scene where Dillon was asked by police and police psychologist Dr Paul de River to drop his trousers and pants in order that they could examine his genitals.

The police and Dr de River then comment on his “juvenile penis” and speculate that this made him a “sadist type” of murderer.
This ridiculous comment is never followed up, it just sits there like a bad smell.

With regard to the location of the murder, the author tells us that shortly after the murder, the owner of a local motel discovered one of their rooms was covered in blood and excrement.

With the Dahlia murder dominating all the press media at the time, the logical thing to do would be to contact the police and alert them to the situation.

The owner and his wife however, decided to clean up the mess and carry on regardless!

The author does provide some support for this claim by other people who claim to have seen the bloody room, but surely this just makes the premise more unlikely.

Rather than having two people who may just have stumbled on the location of the murder, we have four or five people who all say absolutely nothing, while the whole city is in a state of panic at the thought of having a sadistic murderer in their midst.

The author briefly mentions a few of the other Dahlia suspects but because of her absolute certainty of Dillon’s guilt, they are quickly dismissed.

It’s all a bit of a shame, because there is still a need for a well balanced and nuanced book about the Black Dahlia murder, and indeed the Zodiac case.
Unfortunately this book isn’t it.

I would welcome views from other posters who have read the book, but personally I found it a wasted opportunity.
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  #14  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:15 AM
jmenges jmenges is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post
I am sure that Paul Begg will probably review the book in a forthcoming “Ripperologist”, and I for one will be keen to hear what he make of Ms Eatwell’s book.
I'll be the one reviewing both this and ' The Man from the Train' in the next issue of the Rip. Similar books that deal with innocent people talking themselves into the center of murder investigations.

JM
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  #15  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:27 AM
barnflatwyngarde barnflatwyngarde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmenges View Post
I'll be the one reviewing both this and ' The Man from the Train' in the next issue of the Rip. Similar books that deal with innocent people talking themselves into the center of murder investigations.

JM
Thanks JM.

I look forward to reading your review.
As I said in my post, I wasn't doing a review, I was just giving a thumbnail sketch.

I will leave reviewing the experts.

Cheers
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  #16  
Old 10-31-2017, 12:04 PM
jmenges jmenges is offline
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It doesn't take an expert to pick up on some of the things you mention that are problematic when it comes to Dillon as a suspect. Like you said, the fact that two years passed before the supposed eyewitnesses to perhaps maybe possibly Dillon, Hansen and Short being at the motel maybe or maybe not close to the right time period, and there might or might not have been a bloody motel room, is pretty much all the evidence there is to point to Dillon being involved. And then when you consider the source De River and all that went on to rope in Dillon and bring him back to Los Angeles, plus the tenuous at best motive for a police cover up, the whole theory seems to be a house of cards.

JM
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  #17  
Old 11-01-2017, 03:48 AM
barnflatwyngarde barnflatwyngarde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmenges View Post
It doesn't take an expert to pick up on some of the things you mention that are problematic when it comes to Dillon as a suspect. Like you said, the fact that two years passed before the supposed eyewitnesses to perhaps maybe possibly Dillon, Hansen and Short being at the motel maybe or maybe not close to the right time period, and there might or might not have been a bloody motel room, is pretty much all the evidence there is to point to Dillon being involved. And then when you consider the source De River and all that went on to rope in Dillon and bring him back to Los Angeles, plus the tenuous at best motive for a police cover up, the whole theory seems to be a house of cards.

JM
A very good and concise summation of some of the major problems, JM.

It seemed to me that the more the authors main points re Dillon's guilt were scrutinised, the weaker they became.

Roll on the next issue of Ripperologist.
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