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Old 06-25-2017, 10:15 AM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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Default Can anyone assist me unraveling a curious Old Bailey murder case from 1897?

I'd be grateful of any advice anyone can offer me on this case...

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...cott#highlight

You will see it suggests that O'Connell & Sullivan were charged on the Coroner's Inquistion with the manslaughter of Forbes (O'connell it appears was separately indicted for the same offence). Yet I can find no record of this on the Old Bailey site (and thus assume that the evidence was just duplicated?)

The punishment being 8 years penal servitude, following both the defendants attacking the aggrieved in separate incidents.

I assume this to mean that both were sentenced to 8 years tariff?
If you read the whole case, O'Connell's version of events is recorded but not Sullivan's?

Sullivan is arrested the same day (27th May) by PC Endicott and gets a months imprisonment, the next day following being put before the Thames Court and would have been in prison when Forbes died (Forbes died 2 weeks later, whilst Sullivan is in prison).

On the 16th June there's the coroners court hearing. Whereby O'Connell is arrrsted by Insp Hancock. Sullivan is still serving her months sentence (and I assume would have been remanded at the conclusion of that until the case proper is heard on the 26th July).

Checking the census records (were people in jail included on the censuses?) If so, there are seven PATRICK O'CONNELL's of the correct age (assume he could have been in prison anywhere in the country?) Were there prisons in Birkenhead, Cardiff, Weymouth, Dalziel, Paddington or Woolwich in 1897?

Interestingly there is however an JOHANNA SULLIVAN of the correct age in the 1901 census, living in Poplar a coincidence or the same women released early from prison (assuming she did get the 8 years sentence suggested?)

To that end which prison would Sullivan have gone to - Is there anyway of ascertaining this & is it possible to research her via that means?
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Old 06-26-2017, 02:55 AM
Robert Robert is offline
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Hi SC

It says that no evidence was offered against Sullivan. She was not guilty, and she was discharged. O'Connell got 8 years for manslaughter. He had also been charged with assault but apparently that was not followed up.
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Old 06-26-2017, 03:02 AM
Robert Robert is offline
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Patrick O'Connell was in Portland prison, Dorset in 1901.
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Old 06-26-2017, 03:54 AM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Hi SC

It says that no evidence was offered against Sullivan. She was not guilty, and she was discharged. O'Connell got 8 years for manslaughter. He had also been charged with assault but apparently that was not followed up.

So it does!! Completely missed that !! But anyway she still went to prison for a month for assaulting Forbes, for which Endicott arrested her. That being said, is it possible to ascertain which prison she would have gone to to serve out her sentence? Do they keep records and can they be viewed? I wonder whether a picture of her exists?
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Old 06-26-2017, 03:57 AM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Patrick O'Connell was in Portland prison, Dorset in 1901.

Thanks for this

Did you dig this up via the census or by some other means?

Do prisoner records exist for this prison?
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:23 AM
Robert Robert is offline
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Hi SC

I found O'Connell in the 1901 census.

I very much doubt if there exists an individual log book for O'Connell. It might be worth searching the National Archives catalogue, which has prison calendars from Dorset.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:08 AM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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Quote:
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Hi SC

I found O'Connell in the 1901 census.

I very much doubt if there exists an individual log book for O'Connell. It might be worth searching the National Archives catalogue, which has prison calendars from Dorset.

I thought this might be the case, but what about SULLIVAN. I would have thought there would be fewer women prisoners?

Interestingly she seems to have been no stranger to the Old Bailey and yet again a not guilty verdict......

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...IVAN#highlight
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