Slummers

[Sam Flynn]

(Taken over from a Druitt thread)

What is of course obvious from [Seth Koven's] book [on "Slumming"] is that the East End was chock full of all sorts: working there, living there, playing there and passing through.

With respect, MrP, that is not obvious from Koven's book at all. The author himself admits early on that he is dealing with frustratingly starved data.

The East End may indeed have been "chock-full" of "all sorts", but most of those "sorts" were desperately poor. How much "chock" we might apportion to the non-local, comparatively wealthy, classes is not readily apparent. Still less known is the subset of those who weren't in the East End for strictly professional, academic or charitable reasons.

Edit: I note, on reflection, that you may have been referring to Bill Fishman's book, East End 1888, MrP, rather than Koven's on "Slumming". If so, then my first paragraph above, and my quote of your post, doesn't really apply. Apologies for that. However, my point about Koven's book and indeed the gist of the first and second paragraph still stands.

[Ben]

Sorry, Gareth. I only noticed your post after responding on the Druitt thread.

Agreed wholeheartedly, btw!

[Mr Poster]

Hi SamF

Nice of you to start a new thread. But I think the title is a bit ....off? Its not necessary for folks to have been "slumming" to have non-working class, non-scuzzy, suit wearing folks out and about in Whitecapel.

Now I have to go.........Ireland should be serving up a right platefull of rugby whup-ass to Wales about now and Im stuffed if I know which Scandinavian channell is showing it.......

p

[Limehouse]

This is an interesting thread. Thanks Sam, for starting it.

My own research into the East End of this period reveals that in the areas of Whitechapel and Spitalfields there was considerable poverty and deprevation. However, looking at the East End in general, there were 'pockets' of respectability and even affluence, to some extent. For example, members of my own family were living in Agnes Street, Limehouse during the 1881 census. The census returns show that my relative lived in a decently sized house with his wife, his wife's sister and a 'servant'.

The reason for these 'pockets' of relative affluence seems to be the need for people to live near their place of work. My relatives owned an engineering works in the docks. They were skilled craftsmen who made engines, distilled turpentine and trained engineers. As tansport improved, they started to move out of the East End to the leafy suburbs in the north east of London.
However, even in 1888, they would still have been walking the streets of the east End.

Further to the idea of 'slumming' it is well documented that certain gentlemen 'flanneurs' enjoyed walking the streets of the slums and were even known to frequent the pubs and bars. Some claimed to be there for charitable reasons, some claimed to be doing 'social research' (Henry Mayhew, among them and others captured the tawdry but enticing music halls and pubs in their literature or their art (re Sickert).

Judith Walkowitz describes such gentlemen in her book "City of dreadful Delight' but the notion of the 'flanneur' has been explored in other work. Of course, there were also at least several well-heeled women engaged in various sorts of social and charitable work in the East End at this time also.

[sdreid]

Slumming is mostly a power trip. Here in the States, we have well off people who ride the rails on their vacations pretending to be hobos as a sort of adventure. Of course, they can smugly know within themselves that they "are better" than the people they are riding with and can leave the life whenever the notion strikes them.