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  #791  
Old 01-30-2017, 12:10 PM
RodCrosby RodCrosby is offline
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Hi Rod, I'm still stress-testing. Why do you think Parry failed to dispose of the glove at the same time as the weapon? Why was Parry so agitated and "near insanity" at the garage at midnight when between 9pm and 11pm he was behaving normally at his girlfriend's house? I think for a Parry Conspiracy to work Parry disposed of the weapon later, at say 11:30pm (fewer people around) and was interrupted (i.e. nearly seen) and failed to dispose of the glove. Hence, he would be agitated when he visited the garage straight after.

BTW, Murphy says that Parry picked up Lily Lloyd from the cinema at 9pm on the murder night (and hence in a blood stained car), but I did not find that in Lily Lloyd's statement: she says Parry went straight to her house.
Maybe Parry thought it best to dispose of them separately, not together. Perhaps Parry had temporarily forgotten about the glove, or maybe Parkes just opened the glove box before Parry expected him to.

Well, it's possible that "M" hadn't said he'd killed or hurt Julia, maybe just "threatened" her, or slightly injured her. Maybe Parry didn't hear about the murder until a few hours later, like Parkes claimed he himself heard, and then he panicked. Maybe he only heard from his father, or someone, when he returned home, post 11pm.

Yes, Parry and the two Lloyds all simply state he called about 9pm and stayed until 11pm or 11.30pm. Nothing about picking Lily up somewhere else. Of significance is that both Lloyds state he was late.

Discussing with M what had gone wrong, and taking him home?

Last edited by RodCrosby : 01-30-2017 at 12:25 PM.
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  #792  
Old 01-30-2017, 01:30 PM
John G John G is offline
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I think they if Parry went to Atkinson's garage on the evening then he's deeply implicated. Thus, he gave a very detailed account of his whereabouts on the evening in question, effectively cloaking himself in an army of alibis. Why then would he not refer to garage visit? I think that tbe only viable explanation is that he had something to hide
Okay, I've made one or two predictive text errors with this post! Should read: "I think that if Parry went to Atkinson's garage on the night of the murder then he's deeply implicated. Thus, he gave a very detailed account of his whereabouts on the evening in question, effectively cloaking himself in an army of alibis. Why then would he not refer to the garage visit? I think the only viable explanation is that he had something to hide.
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  #793  
Old 01-31-2017, 12:30 AM
John G John G is offline
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Originally Posted by ColdCaseJury View Post
Hi Rod, I'm still stress-testing. Why do you think Parry failed to dispose of the glove at the same time as the weapon? Why was Parry so agitated and "near insanity" at the garage at midnight when between 9pm and 11pm he was behaving normally at his girlfriend's house? I think for a Parry Conspiracy to work Parry disposed of the weapon later, at say 11:30pm (fewer people around) and was interrupted (i.e. nearly seen) and failed to dispose of the glove. Hence, he would be agitated when he visited the garage straight after.

BTW, Murphy says that Parry picked up Lily Lloyd from the cinema at 9pm on the murder night (and hence in a blood stained car), but I did not find that in Lily Lloyd's statement: she says Parry went straight to her house.
Hi CCJ,

Did Parkes actually state what time Parry arrived, or did he just imply that it was sometime in the early hours of the morning?
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  #794  
Old 01-31-2017, 02:02 AM
ColdCaseJury ColdCaseJury is offline
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Hi CCJ,

Did Parkes actually state what time Parry arrived, or did he just imply that it was sometime in the early hours of the morning?
Not precisely, only that it was late. No earlier than 11:30pm (Parkes has to arrive at the garage and speak to PC Ken Wallace). I would estimate a little before midnight. I think the range is 11:30 - 00:30.
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  #795  
Old 01-31-2017, 04:34 PM
RodCrosby RodCrosby is offline
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Not precisely, only that it was late. No earlier than 11:30pm (Parkes has to arrive at the garage and speak to PC Ken Wallace). I would estimate a little before midnight. I think the range is 11:30 - 00:30.
Parkes mentioned that Parry was sometimes there till "3 or 4 in the morning", and says Parry arrived "later that night... or early morning", as if he's clarifying himself, so I'd think it was most likely in the early, early hours of 21st January.
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  #796  
Old 02-01-2017, 12:41 AM
John G John G is offline
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Okay, I've been thinking about this. If Parry had a co-conspirator, i.e. "M", who actually committed the murder, why did M not simply dispose of the glove and murder weapon himself? After, all wouldn't that be his first instinct, because the longer he holds on to them the greater the risk? And why risk leaving them to Parry to get rid of?

If M intimated that he'd only "slightly injured", or merely threatened Julia, wouldn't Parry be a bit suspicious once he was handed the blood stained mitten, and an iron bar covered in blood and gore?
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  #797  
Old 02-01-2017, 01:10 AM
RodCrosby RodCrosby is offline
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Originally Posted by John G View Post
Okay, I've been thinking about this. If Parry had a co-conspirator, i.e. "M", who actually committed the murder, why did M not simply dispose of the glove and murder weapon himself? After, all wouldn't that be his first instinct, because the longer he holds on to them the greater the risk? And why risk leaving them to Parry to get rid of?

If M intimated that he'd only "slightly injured", or merely threatened Julia, wouldn't Parry be a bit suspicious once he was handed the blood stained mitten, and an iron bar covered in blood and gore?
M was waiting to be picked up any minute by Parry, at the deserted recreation ground, a stone's throw from Wolverton Street. Why not wait until safely in the car to decide what to do with the gloves and bar? And then ... well Parry, you're going to have to get rid of these for me...
Hardly a "risk" for M, more like an insurance policy, in fact.

The recreation ground is pitch black dark. The interior lights of Parry's car are dim, or even non existent.
Parry is not expecting the news he receives from M, and is not sure he even understands it correctly. Maybe he doesn't even hear the bar slip from M's sleeve on to the footwell floor, and only discovers it later. Maybe M just throws the bloody glove(s) on the floor also.

Only later does the penny drop, and Parry realise just how desperately implicated he now is... Who would believe him?
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  #798  
Old 02-01-2017, 03:11 PM
AmericanSherlock AmericanSherlock is offline
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Originally Posted by John G View Post
Okay, I've been thinking about this. If Parry had a co-conspirator, i.e. "M", who actually committed the murder, why did M not simply dispose of the glove and murder weapon himself? After, all wouldn't that be his first instinct, because the longer he holds on to them the greater the risk? And why risk leaving them to Parry to get rid of?

If M intimated that he'd only "slightly injured", or merely threatened Julia, wouldn't Parry be a bit suspicious once he was handed the blood stained mitten, and an iron bar covered in blood and gore?

I agree with this point. I don't think An accomplice would hand Parry a blood stained glove to keep in his car. Nor would Parry accept it...definitely not would he bring it hours later to a car wash with the glove still in it.
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  #799  
Old 02-01-2017, 03:35 PM
RodCrosby RodCrosby is offline
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I agree with this point. I don't think An accomplice would hand Parry a blood stained glove to keep in his car. Nor would Parry accept it...definitely not would he bring it hours later to a car wash with the glove still in it.
With an unexpected turn of events, in darkness, can you say Parry was really in control, at this point?

He'd probably 'budgeted' no more than a couple of minutes to pick up "M", divvy-up the spoils of the robbery, and have a good old laugh at Wallace's expense, before heading off again to the location of his next carefully-constructed 'alibi'.

"M" was in control at this point, and Parry just wanted to meet his own pre-planned deadlines.

'Something has gone wrong. No time to dwell on it. Just get the hell out of here. What was that he dropped on the footwell floor? I need to think this through once I get home...'
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  #800  
Old 02-02-2017, 12:36 AM
John G John G is offline
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Originally Posted by RodCrosby View Post
M was waiting to be picked up any minute by Parry, at the deserted recreation ground, a stone's throw from Wolverton Street. Why not wait until safely in the car to decide what to do with the gloves and bar? And then ... well Parry, you're going to have to get rid of these for me...
Hardly a "risk" for M, more like an insurance policy, in fact.

The recreation ground is pitch black dark. The interior lights of Parry's car are dim, or even non existent.
Parry is not expecting the news he receives from M, and is not sure he even understands it correctly. Maybe he doesn't even hear the bar slip from M's sleeve on to the footwell floor, and only discovers it later. Maybe M just throws the bloody glove(s) on the floor also.

Only later does the penny drop, and Parry realise just how desperately implicated he now is... Who would believe him?
Okay, interesting theory. But isn't it undermined by Lily Hall's evidence? Moreover, in respect of the bar and the glove, even if "M" was trying to draw Parry further into the conspiracy, in order to guarantee his silence, surely it wouldn't have taken Parry several hours to detect the presence of the glove and iron bar in his vehicle.

Last edited by John G : 02-02-2017 at 12:43 AM.
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