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  #21  
Old 05-31-2017, 03:57 PM
Paddy Paddy is offline
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On another point, Schwartz is the only person who describes himself as witnessing an assault on a woman who is then found dead shortly afterwards - he also describes himself as being chased from the scene of that attack. I don't want to put ideas into anybody's head but it does seem (to me) odd that Lechmere, who reports the Nichols find to a police constable, is converted from witness to suspect, and that Hutchinson suffers the same fate for not coming forward straightaway but then giving a detailed description. Why them but not him? Why is the one man who we know (from his own account) ran from the scene of a Ripper murder, not subject of the same level of suspicion?
Bridewell
They do say the last one to see the victim is high on the list. We are told Hutch had been to Romford and he knew Mary an other bits of info. We also know Lechmere was going to work, where he worked, the route etc. I dont think one can suspect Schwartz just yet as we know nothing about him at all. Once we know a bit I am sure he will join the others as suspects. Who knows maybe he was Jack ?

Pat.....
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  #22  
Old 05-31-2017, 06:33 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Bridewell View Post
It is often remarked that the Schwartz account is uncorroborated - sometimes implying that an incident which is seen by only one person can be safely dismissed as not having taken place at all.

On another point, Schwartz is the only person who describes himself as witnessing an assault on a woman who is then found dead shortly afterwards - he also describes himself as being chased from the scene of that attack. I don't want to put ideas into anybody's head but it does seem (to me) odd that Lechmere, who reports the Nichols find to a police constable, is converted from witness to suspect, and that Hutchinson suffers the same fate for not coming forward straightaway but then giving a detailed description. Why them but not him? Why is the one man who we know (from his own account) ran from the scene of a Ripper murder, not subject of the same level of suspicion?
Normally I would agree and would say he should also be at least a person of interest. But his suspect matches the other witnesses suspect descriptions, and specifically the peaked cap.
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #23  
Old 06-01-2017, 04:20 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridewell View Post
It is often remarked that the Schwartz account is uncorroborated - sometimes implying that an incident which is seen by only one person can be safely dismissed as not having taken place at all.

On another point, Schwartz is the only person who describes himself as witnessing an assault on a woman who is then found dead shortly afterwards - he also describes himself as being chased from the scene of that attack. I don't want to put ideas into anybody's head but it does seem (to me) odd that Lechmere, who reports the Nichols find to a police constable, is converted from witness to suspect, and that Hutchinson suffers the same fate for not coming forward straightaway but then giving a detailed description. Why them but not him? Why is the one man who we know (from his own account) ran from the scene of a Ripper murder, not subject of the same level of suspicion?
Maybe because in his account the soon to be deceased was actually being assaulted minutes before her throat was cut..once. Neither of the other 2 mentioned that they saw anything like an assault.

Serious suspicions about Lechmeres possible guilt are held almost exclusively by a single poster here.
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  #24  
Old 06-01-2017, 04:23 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Hi All,

Israel Schwartz.

How must a person be dressed in order to have the "appearance of being in the theatrical line"? [Star, 1st October 1888].

Regards,

Simon
My guess would be, for the period, somewhat loudly Simon. Mismatched patterns, dramatic moustache, that kind of thing. Attention seeking.
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  #25  
Old 06-01-2017, 11:35 AM
Paddy Paddy is offline
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Maybe he was a Gypsy they went in for quite strange frock type things He He !
Maybe Jack was shouting Gypsy not Lipsky ?? (only joking)

Pat
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  #26  
Old 06-01-2017, 11:48 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy View Post
Maybe he was a Gypsy they went in for quite strange frock type things He He !
Maybe Jack was shouting Gypsy not Lipsky ?? (only joking)

Pat
Brilliant!
and cool pic
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"Is all that we see or seem
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-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #27  
Old 06-01-2017, 12:36 PM
Robert Robert is online now
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I imagine the trouble was that, just as Liz and BS were having their bust-up, Schwarz came along and rather tactlessly serenaded them with his gypsy violin.
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  #28  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:49 AM
Paddy Paddy is offline
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Default Alexander Aaronson

I received Alexanders' birth certificate that I had been waiting for and it gave the address of 45 Boyd street.
So I still dont know when they moved from Boyd street to Ellen street, only that it was between 1886 and 1890. So frustrating but still possible. I now have to try and see who moved into Boyd street.
If anyone can come up with any ideas ? I have tried the electoral registers.

Pat........
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  #29  
Old 06-05-2017, 12:29 PM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Pat
It looks like this family were at 45 Boyd St in 1888. I think it's probably the same father in both admissions despite the surname difference:

Name Date of Birth
Date Admitted
Number
Last School Parent or Guardian Address Date Left
Reason Left Notes

Deborah 09-1879
05-03-1888
13795
Simon SHEROTSKY 45 Boyd St 06-1891

Jews' Free School London

Betsy 06-04-1869
16-10-1876


Simon KARETSKY 45 Boyd St 02-1888

Jews' Free School London
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  #30  
Old 06-05-2017, 04:04 PM
Paddy Paddy is offline
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Thank you very much Debra,

So if they started school in 2-88 that means February right ? That narrows it down quite a bit.
So it is possible the Aaronsons had moved to Ellen Street between October 1886 and February 1888. Also possibly living at 22 Ellen Street after feb 1888
I seem to remember thinking no 22 Ellen Street was Israels wifes familys address is that right do you know?
I found a John McDuell at 22 Ellen street in the St George in the East 1887 Electoral roll but I am not sure if he would be a lodger or owner?

Pat.........
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