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  #11  
Old 12-25-2017, 03:33 AM
barnflatwyngarde barnflatwyngarde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Station Cat View Post
One thing, I've always been curious about, when considering facts about the case is WHY did the police take him to a convalescent seaside home and not just a local mental asylum?

I believe the convalescent seaside home was somewhere, that injured bobbies and the like went, why would they send "Jack the Ripper" there?
They would send him there, if indeed the witness was a policeman.

I have always thought that it was a distinct possibility that the "witness" was a policeman.

This of course relies on Swanson's statement that the witness was Jewish, being wrong.
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  #12  
Old 12-25-2017, 04:31 AM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Barnflat, do you think the witness (why the quotation marks, by the way?) was not only a policeman, but also an injured policeman?
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Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
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  #13  
Old 12-25-2017, 05:00 AM
barnflatwyngarde barnflatwyngarde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pcdunn View Post
Barnflat, do you think the witness (why the quotation marks, by the way?) was not only a policeman, but also an injured policeman?
Hi Pc,
The problem in dealing with this topic is the unequivocal nature of the Swanson Marginalia.

Swanson is quite clear in stating that the witness was Jewish, but this statement itself raises some issues.

We are asked to accept that when the witness stated that he would refuse to testify in court re the positive identification of the suspect, the Police simply shrugged their shoulders and muttered something like "Oh well, win some lose some!"

The points raised by Station Cat are interesting ones.

Why would the police take the suspect to a Police Convalescent Home for a face to face meeting with a witness?

It is possible that the witness was indeed a police officer, quite possibly convalescing.

However, accepting this possibility means that we have to look anew at Swanson's comments re the identification.

Paul Begg sums up the problem of Swanson's comments very well when he says:

"Swanson does not tell a complicated story, but on hearing it one feels like a child who compulsively asks "why?" of every detail."

(Jack the Ripper: The Facts pge 353)
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  #14  
Old 12-25-2017, 10:51 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Hi, Barnflat,

Interesting! I think Begg's summary does raise questions and speculations:
Why say there was a civilian witness, if it was a policeman?
If it was a policeman, is there a missing (or deliberately lost) report about the incident in which the suspect was taken?
Why put the blame on an immigrant Jew, if it wasn't true? Yes, covering up an English suspect would protect the status quo, as would covering up an anarchist plot, but wouldn't blaming the Jews lead to the sort of trouble that wiping away the GSG was supposed to eliminate?
Why, why, why...
Thanks for the reply, and I hope you and yours had a very Merry Christmas, indeed.
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Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
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  #15  
Old 12-26-2017, 02:32 AM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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The theory that the "witness" was a police officer and refused to testify against "Jack" because he was a fellow Jew is preposterous to say the least, police officers (even in Victorian times) can't pick and choose who they give evidence against!!!

It was always my understanding that Kosminski was in the convalescent home and the witness was brought to him?

So again why was Kosminski taken to a police seaside convalescent home and not just a public care institute? The Convalescent home was just that a place for injured officers to recover and having gone there you wouldn't expect to be sharing these facilities with the criminals or general members of the public for that matter?

We've got Jack at last, I know lets send him to the Convalescent home????
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  #16  
Old 12-26-2017, 07:35 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Station Cat View Post
The theory that the "witness" was a police officer and refused to testify against "Jack" because he was a fellow Jew is preposterous to say the least, police officers (even in Victorian times) can't pick and choose who they give evidence against!!!

It was always my understanding that Kosminski was in the convalescent home and the witness was brought to him?

So again why was Kosminski taken to a police seaside convalescent home and not just a public care institute? The Convalescent home was just that a place for injured officers to recover and having gone there you wouldn't expect to be sharing these facilities with the criminals or general members of the public for that matter?

We've got Jack at last, I know lets send him to the Convalescent home????
Who knows. Thereís probably a reasonable explanation if we knew more detail. It probably has to do with kosminsky not being arrested but in an asylum and trying to keep it on the low down because they didnít want it publicized.
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  #17  
Old 12-26-2017, 09:33 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Station Cat View Post
The theory that the "witness" was a police officer and refused to testify against "Jack" because he was a fellow Jew is preposterous to say the least, police officers (even in Victorian times) can't pick and choose who they give evidence against!!!

It was always my understanding that Kosminski was in the convalescent home and the witness was brought to him?

So again why was Kosminski taken to a police seaside convalescent home and not just a public care institute? The Convalescent home was just that a place for injured officers to recover and having gone there you wouldn't expect to be sharing these facilities with the criminals or general members of the public for that matter?

We've got Jack at last, I know lets send him to the Convalescent home????
hi Cat

several things here, why do you assume that kos was in the home and witness brought to him, that is not what swanson said.
second, the assumption that the seaside home was the police one is a big assumption. kos was sent to it, with great difficulty, suggestion he did not want to go, that suggests the home was where someone else was.
there were several possible witnesses, Lawende, Schwartz, Harvey ,Watkins and one other Blenkinsop plus a number of others, where were those people in 90 and 91?
Can we place any of them in somewhere which could be termed a "home"?

Steve
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  #18  
Old 12-26-2017, 10:38 AM
Scott Nelson Scott Nelson is offline
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Closest would be "James Hay" (Harvey?) a policeman in the Brighton Home in the April 1891 census. Since Swanson only said "the Seaside Home", it could be anywhere.
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  #19  
Old 12-27-2017, 10:29 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Station Cat View Post
It was always my understanding that Kosminski was in the convalescent home and the witness was brought to him?

So again why was Kosminski taken to a police seaside convalescent home and not just a public care institute? The Convalescent home was just that a place for injured officers to recover and having gone there you wouldn't expect to be sharing these facilities with the criminals or general members of the public for that matter?

We've got Jack at last, I know lets send him to the Convalescent home????
Hi SC,

A few years back I was doing some research into a French madame named Rosalie Bernstein (Ochse). She ran a brothel in the West end with her husband and loaned expensive clothing to the girls living in the house and if they left she took them to court to pay for the clothing. It was that fact that made me think of Mary Jane Kelly, french woman and trying to get her clothing back. Anyway, another famous person worked for a time with Madame Ochse. Her name was Kate Walsh. Kate ended up marrying her protector at the brothel by the name of Lord Euston. The same man in the Cleveland Street Scandal. Kate had a friend, a well known actress by the name of Florence St John. In late 1887, Florence St John developed a serious lung complaint and was sent to a seaside convalescent home in Brighton. There she was being treated by a nurse named "Mrs. Isaacson". Mrs. Isaacson introduced Florence to her extended family, the Cohen's. Jacob Cohen, a local teacher, had a 20 year old son named Arthur Cohen that Florence began an affair with. He was the sub-editor for the Financial Times.

Sorry for the long introduction, but I have been wondering if this Jacob Cohen might have been related to Kosminski. At least I gathered from this research that there was a seaside convalescent home in Brighton that treated people other than the police force. Maybe Kosminski was part of the extended family of this Mrs Isaacson as well?

Last edited by jerryd : 12-27-2017 at 10:32 AM.
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  #20  
Old 12-27-2017, 02:47 PM
Paddy Paddy is offline
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Jacob Herman Cohens father was Herman Jacob Cohen. He arrived in London England in 1826 from Rotterdam he was alone and a merchant. I cant yet see a connection.

Pat...
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