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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #261  
Old 12-09-2016, 06:44 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
It isn't easy to follow the point of this argument.

The cuts in her skirts do indicate he cut through her clothing, but her skirts were upside down. Eddowes didn't appear to be wearing underclothes so once her skirts were lifted, and thrown over her chest, as sketched by Foster, then her abdomen & pubic area was exposed.

The knife was apparently thrust into her chest (at the enciform cartilage), through the upturned skirt(s), then dragged down towards the abdomen, which resulted in a 10"? long cut in her skirt(s), and dividing the waist band(s), and then continued across the exposed abdomen to the pubes.

If that is what is being debated here then, yes, this seems to be the case.
But, this is the traditional view, isn't it?, and I was under the impression that Trevor rejects the traditional view.
So, I'm not altogether sure what the plot is in debating these details.

Wickerman,

you are right.

I was never talking about the cuts going through the clothing, my issue was on the location of a claimed stab wound.

Trevor then raised the issue of the clothing and the separate stab he claims to the liver.

Steve
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  #262  
Old 12-10-2016, 01:07 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Wickerman,

you are right.

I was never talking about the cuts going through the clothing, my issue was on the location of a claimed stab wound.

Trevor then raised the issue of the clothing and the separate stab he claims to the liver.

Steve
Lets be straight about this once again, because as usual you have twisted what i have said.

Dr Brown mentions a stab to the liver he is specific about that. So that means for the liver to be stabbed the knife must have entered the body via the point of the knife now in my books that process is called a "stab".

I do not suggest that any cuts to the clothing can be matched to the stab to the liver. I did mention the stab to the liver because it does not appear to show up on any of the photographs. The reason for that could be because that stab was where the knife first entered the body through the clothing and was then drawn down. Brown mentions the wound going up but either he is mistaken or the killer was at an angle to the body whereby he was able to do that.

As to the clothes being thrown up and the knife then being used to make the cut then, this is not a plausible explanation. The clothes were affixed around the waist so simply throwing all the clothes up would cover the sternum area and make it almost impossible for the killer to gain free access to that area and to be able to draw a knife up or down through the thrown up clothing.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
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  #263  
Old 12-10-2016, 05:40 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Lets be straight about this once again, because as usual you have twisted what i have said.

Dr Brown mentions a stab to the liver he is specific about that. So that means for the liver to be stabbed the knife must have entered the body via the point of the knife now in my books that process is called a "stab".

I do not suggest that any cuts to the clothing can be matched to the stab to the liver. I did mention the stab to the liver because it does not appear to show up on any of the photographs. The reason for that could be because that stab was where the knife first entered the body through the clothing and was then drawn down. Brown mentions the wound going up but either he is mistaken or the killer was at an angle to the body whereby he was able to do that.

As to the clothes being thrown up and the knife then being used to make the cut then, this is not a plausible explanation. The clothes were affixed around the waist so simply throwing all the clothes up would cover the sternum area and make it almost impossible for the killer to gain free access to that area and to be able to draw a knife up or down through the thrown up clothing.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Trevor

At last you make an argument and it's not a bad one to a degree.
Of course it is just one of many put forward.
Like Jon Guys it meets the medical needs of the data.

Why not do that in the first place rather than ignore points.

However back to the issue, you are playing semantics here over stab. However it is good to see you amend your position as I see it.
You say you have not; so be it guess it's back to how we interpret what we write.

I see no reply to you statement I had not answered your question and of course no reply to the other issue.

Don't worry it won't go away.



Steve
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  #264  
Old 12-10-2016, 08:02 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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QUOTE=Trevor Marriott;402888

Quote:
As to the one issue with the photo you seem to want to eliminate it could quite easily be a small cut, it is only your opinion that it is a paper issue.

Grey Petticoat 1.5 inch cut on front.
Good Trevor, now I understand what you mean!

You claim that the mark to the left on the photograph outside of the body in the photograph is a real cut by Jack the Ripper and that Jack the Ripper therefore owned the photograph and cut it.

Pierre
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  #265  
Old 12-10-2016, 09:20 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
QUOTE=Trevor Marriott;402888

Good Trevor, now I understand what you mean!
Pierre
Pierre
Time and time again you have proved you do not have the mental capacity to understand the simplest of things.

As to your attempt at humour, a piece of advice, dont give up on your school lessons.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
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  #266  
Old 12-10-2016, 10:00 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Pierre
Time and time again you have proved you do not have the mental capacity to understand the simplest of things.

As to your attempt at humour, a piece of advice, dont give up on your school lessons.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Trevor,

Steve and Pierre are both referring to the mark you have circled that I have marked with a black arrow and I agree with them , it is NOT on the body. It is a mark on the backround between the arm and the body.

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  #267  
Old 12-10-2016, 10:20 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Trevor,

Steve and Pierre are both referring to the mark you have circled that I have marked with a black arrow and I agree with them , it is NOT on the body. It is a mark on the backround between the arm and the body.

Indeed.

But time and time again Trevor has proved he does not have the mental capacity to understand the simplest of things.

Pierre
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  #268  
Old 12-10-2016, 10:21 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is online now
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Would anyone be so kind as to post the complete details of Collard's clothing list from the official inquest report please....I want to try and understand the wounds but I'm still saving up for a copy of the ultimate sourcebook.

Last edited by Joshua Rogan : 12-10-2016 at 10:27 AM.
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  #269  
Old 12-10-2016, 10:28 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Trevor,

Steve and Pierre are both referring to the mark you have circled that I have marked with a black arrow and I agree with them , it is NOT on the body. It is a mark on the backround between the arm and the body.

I am fully aware of what they both are referring to, and when I referred to it in the first instance, I did so in good faith, and not with the intention to mislead as is being inferred, and now this has turned into personal childish conflicts.

I have made the valid points I set out to make with regards to the cuts in the clothing in relation to the wounds, and I have nothing more to add. I am more than happy to continue to say that Edowes was stabbed at least twice through her outer clothing, and having been stabbed the knife was drawn down, and across, as the cuts in the clothing depict, before the clothes were thrown up above her abdomen.

If those on here want to belive in their own personal suggestions as to how the various blood stained cuts in the clothing occured then so be it.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
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  #270  
Old 12-10-2016, 10:32 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
I am fully aware of what they both are referring to, and when I referred to it in the first instance, I did so in good faith, and not with the intention to mislead as is being inferred, and now this has turned into personal childish conflicts.

I have made the valid points I set out to make with regards to the cuts in the clothing in relation to the wounds, and I have nothing more to add. I am more than happy to continue to say that Edowes was stabbed at least twice through her outer clothing, and having been stabbed the knife was drawn down, and across, as the cuts in the clothing depict, before the clothes were thrown up above her abdomen.

If those on here want to belive in their own personal suggestions as to how the various blood stained cuts in the clothing occured then so be it.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
It's simple, really Trevor, do you agree the "cut" you have circled and I marked with a black arrow is NOT on the body? I never thought you were trying to mislead.

Last edited by jerryd : 12-10-2016 at 10:34 AM.
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