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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Letters and Communications > Goulston Street Graffito

View Poll Results: Did Jack write the GSG?
YES 78 39.39%
NO 120 60.61%
Voters: 198. You may not vote on this poll

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  #2691  
Old 05-13-2018, 02:21 PM
etenguy etenguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Unfortunately, there is nothing that says the writing was right above the apron, and all the evidence says is that one witness believed it looked fresh... even though there apparently wasn't any chalk-dust found on the floor of the passage.
I believe PC Long did state the writing was above (the apron) on the wall. Though he did not say 'right above', most people would have answered as he did if they meant the apron was below the writing. In any case, it was close enough that senior Police Officers consider the two might be connected.

Halse gave a reason for why he thought the writing looked fresh to him, and we have to judge whether we find that convincing. Long was not sure. Of the two, Halse seems the more reliable witness to me. Long had to stop his testimony to retrieve his notebook before continuing and was sacked the following year for being drunk on duty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
The fact that it was written in small letters at an uncomfortable height, yet still appeared neat, suggests to me that it was written in a leisurely manner under favourable seeing conditions - as opposed to in the middle of the night, by a man on the run from the scene of a major crime.
Possibly. It wasn't a long message, so probably less than a minute or two to write. Not too much effort to write neatly.

Or perhaps, written by someone used to writing with chalk who had neat handwriting even when writing quickly.

We could counter each reason to think the GSG was written by the murderer, as we could for each reason to think the apron and writing were not connected. I think all we can do is consider the whole body of the argument for and against and decide which we consider most likely.
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  #2692  
Old 05-13-2018, 02:37 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etenguy View Post
I believe PC Long did state the writing was above (the apron) on the wall.
The sources vary in their wording, unfortunately, from "on the wall above" to "above it on the wall". Even the latter doesn't mean diametrically above.
Quote:
In any case, it was close enough that senior Police Officers consider the two might be connected.
I'd suggest that the connection could still have been made, even if the writing had been on the opposite wall. We tend to like seeing connections at the best of times, and a beleaguered police-force is perhaps more susceptible still.
Quote:
Halse gave a reason for why he thought the writing looked fresh to him, and we have to judge whether we find that convincing. Long was not sure. Of the two, Halse seems the more reliable witness to me. Long had to stop his testimony to retrieve his notebook before continuing and was sacked the following year for being drunk on duty.
I can't see how the ability to judge the freshness of chalk should correlate with one's police service record.
Quote:
I think all we can do is consider the whole body of the argument for and against and decide which we consider most likely.
For me, the only real clue is the apron, because that unequivocally shows that the killer passed that way after murdering Eddowes. The graffito adds nothing, whether it was written by the killer or not.
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 05-13-2018 at 02:47 PM.
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  #2693  
Old 05-13-2018, 03:04 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
The sources vary in their wording, unfortunately, from "on the wall above" to "above it on the wall". Even the latter doesn't mean diametrically above
In the same way that Mrs Prater said she lived "above" Mary Kelly, perhaps?

I'm sure I've read one report that said the writing was found a few or a couple of yards from the apron, but I can't find it now so may have dreamed it.
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  #2694  
Old 05-13-2018, 03:15 PM
Scott Nelson Scott Nelson is offline
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In color or black and white?
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  #2695  
Old 05-13-2018, 03:37 PM
etenguy etenguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
I can't see how the ability to judge the freshness of chalk should correlate with one's police service record.
I think PC Long comes over as a bit apathetic - eg he didn't bring his notebook and clearly the coroner was not content with what he was hearing without it. And then a few months later being sacked. Not painting a picture of a sharp, motivated employee. I think this might lead us to question him.

My great grandfather was a policeman in the 1880s and was fired for being drunk on duty. It was about the fourth time he was caught before he lost his job. I suspect it was the same for PC Long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
For me, the only real clue is the apron, because that unequivocally shows that the killer passed that way after murdering Eddowes. The graffito adds nothing, whether it was written by the killer or not.
Actually, it doesn't even prove that the killer passed that way, though it is highly probable. There are other ways the apron could have got there (though this is just playing devil's advocate). Nevertheless, your conclusion (which I share) is based on probability. Though I doubt we could reach as a high a level of probabilty when considering the GSG, we could take the same approach and come to some conclusion.

As for whether the GSG adds anything - well it's certainly not a smoking gun, but I am interested to learn more about cnr's political motivation theory, of which the GSG may provide supporting evidence if it was found to be written by the ripper.
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  #2696  
Old 05-13-2018, 11:30 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
In the same way that Mrs Prater said she lived "above" Mary Kelly, perhaps.
Indeed, and that misled us for over a century.
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  #2697  
Old 05-13-2018, 11:54 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Above all, be careful...?
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  #2698  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:49 AM
Busy Beaver Busy Beaver is online now
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It depends on when it was written. But I doubt very much Jack would have had the time to write on walls whilst beating a hasty retreat. As this was the only such type of graffiti written, he obviously didn't go about writing stuff on walls & thorough fares on his murdering days off (or on).
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  #2699  
Old 05-16-2018, 04:59 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Beaver View Post
It depends on when it was written. But I doubt very much Jack would have had the time to write on walls whilst beating a hasty retreat. As this was the only such type of graffiti written, he obviously didn't go about writing stuff on walls & thorough fares on his murdering days off (or on).
Not *that* hasty a retreat, if the killer was indeed responsible for the GSG - PC Long positively stated that the apron was not there when he passed at 02:20, and if he was correct then whoever deposited it took well over half an hour to travel the six minute walk from Mitre Square. So more of a leisurely, or roundabout, retreat.
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  #2700  
Old 05-16-2018, 05:10 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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The GSG will remain one of the many great unknowns of the case. Convincing arguments can be made for both sides. Some believe the discarded apron was used to authenticate the graffito, while others think it was left by happenstance. As the graffito offers no insight into the murders, and the killer never communicated at the other crime-scenes, I choose to believe the latter.
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