The attack on Swedish housewife Mrs Meike Dalal on Thursday, September 7th 1961

[NickB]

They were asked about a friend of Jimmy's called "Dixie" who they thought was one of Hanratty's girl friends.[further evidence they had seen "Dixie' France the previous day .

Taken at face value, it is evidence of the lack of police knowledge of Dixie’s connection to Hanratty in September.

The 5-Oct-61 phone call came out of the blue and France alone talked to Hanratty. It was the 6-Oct-61 phone call when France, his wife, daughter and brother-in-law kept Hanratty on the phone for over 45 minutes at the request of the police.

The postcard to France would not have contained the word ‘Hanratty’ and therefore I don’t understood why anyone thinks it tipped off the police to the Ryan/Hanratty connection. If France had wanted to tell the police that Ryan was Hanratty he could have done that at any time. The postcard to him is of no use to the police in making the connection.

[Spitfire]

Ewer and Janet Gregsten did not immediately set up house together-Janet and her boys went to live with Ewer and his wife[Janet's half sister] first and it was only after one sudden burst of unbridled passion that they realised they were destined to having an affair.This fits too.I believe William Ewer and his wife were very fond of and extremely concerned about Janet and looking out for her as close relatives would up to that point when William Ewer and Janet became lovers months later.They did not want to see their sister/in law left trying to support her two young children while Gregsten took off to his new flat in Maidenhead on 27th August 1961.

Well this is very strange. Why did Ewer want to arrange the murder of Gregsten if he had no designs on Janet Gregsten until after the murder? The plot thickens.

[Natalie Severn]

Well this is very strange. Why did Ewer want to arrange the murder of Gregsten if he had no designs on Janet Gregsten until after the murder? The plot thickens.

I think the only reason the family got involved initially was to help Janet cope financially when she was facing the departure of her husband to a flat in Maidenhead on the 27th August.We know Gregsten was heavily in debt so Janet would undoubtedly have shared her fears about coping financially when he left her with her husband off to live on his own with the rent / mortgage of the new flat to pay for.

My view is that the scheme was William Ewer's and Ewer's alone as that of a concerned ,chivalrous gentleman looking after the interests of his dear sister in law and his little nephews so she was not made completely insolvent by Michael Gregsten's abandonment. Ewer knew Janet was deeply fond of her husband and he probably thought 'We really have to teach this scoundrel a lesson.Bring him to his senses and get him back where he should be in the family home.'
So how to go about it?
William Ewer probably had France down as a local wide boy-popping into his Umbrella/antiques shop with bits of silver that he might be 'interested in'---napkin rings /silver candle holders type of thing.Perhaps France might know someone who would put the frighteners on Gregsten- get him parted from his lover etc.Ewer may not have been considering any other type of feelings for Janet Gregsten at that stage.He just wanted to see she was going to be alright.
France then saw an opportunity to make desperately needed money but he couldn't turn to Hanratty because he couldn't trust him enough to be sure the job would get done.Nor did he want to share the much needed money with him.What is more they could still face prosecution if it went wrong and ended up with a visit from the police for possessing a gun and threatening behaviour if Valerie say went and reported the incident..So France turned to close family. Although he couldn't use Hanratty for this job he could get the family member to imitate him in the car ---very important so that when Gregsten and Valerie finally got back home-if either reported any of this to the police they would not be looking for France or his brother or brother in law whatever but for a man who said he was 'on the run' had 'done the lot' [went by the name of Jim etc----and btw do we really know what the man actually said to the lovers when Acott insisted on keeping that side of it in the dark in case the jurors full of rectitude, saw Valerie the only decent police witness witness as a strumpet ? Acott would not have allowed such divulgence .
But lets get it straight -nobody need ever have intended to do any physical harm to Valerie or Gregsten -the whole thing had simply backfired when Gregsten turned round too quickly in the car and the gun was fired out of fear.a dead man in front of him with his head half blown away and extreme PANIC and post battle type behaviour took over!!!writ large ---all running round like headless chickens to cover their tracks after the outrage of the accidental murder of Gregsten followed by Valerie's vile rape and crazed shooting .What on earth to do? Janet knew nothing of any of this---suddenly she was being encouraged to visit Valerie in hospital and tell Valerie about them thinking they know who the murderer was and NO he did not have deep set dark staring eyes he had light blue staring eyes . Meanwhile having mplicated Hanratty by placing the gun and ammunition wrapped in one of his dirty hankies under the back seat of the 36 bus that passes France's house they get Janet to visit the hospital where Valerie lay recovering and suggest they knew who did it and the man had big blue eyes not deep set brown ones---and hey presto on August 31st the description of the gunman changed from brown eyes to blue etc etc etc Meanwhile Ewer is following around Hanratty in Swiss Cottages, Petticoat Lane , at the airport bus stop for Hanratty's trip to Ireland ......like a fly round flypaper

[Natalie Severn]

Post script:re my previous post above , number 573 on August 31st Valerie was transported to another hospital after a visit by Acott .It was during this upheaval that the new description was issued on August 31st not after a visit by Janet Gregsten which was a week later.

[NickB]

Although he couldn't use Hanratty for this job he could get the family member to imitate him in the car

I can see how France could turn against Hanratty if he believed he was a murderer and was subsequently ashamed of having brought him into the family house.

But why would France deliberately arrange to stitch up his friend in this way for a crime he did not do?

[Natalie Severn]

But why would France deliberately arrange to stitch up his friend in this way for a crime he did not do?

To France desperate for money having lost his job, the chance to make a few hundred quid by getting a 'shooter' from the Rehearsal Club where he still played cards and knew everybody was an offer from Ewer he couldn't refuse.He had no intention of using it to harm physically ---that was not what he was asked to do.He may simply have been asked if he knew anyone willing to give Gregston a bit of stick ---make him see sense over leaving his wife and children.The idea of having a gun may have come from France because he had such easy access to them at the Rehearsal club and choosing a gun, a lethal weapon , created a pretty powerful threat inside a morris minor .But ---and there was a big but...suppose either Valerie or even Gregsten went back and rang the police once the gunman had left them and described the man ? Best therefore to wear a mask and pretend to be somebody else to deflect attention.What better than pretending to be a petty gangster? or a jail bird on the run? Don't forget either that France had probably had five weeks of getting his ears battered with Hanratty's tales of daring do in and out of the prison so he had all the fresh stories and street slang at his fingertips.He had also been in the nick himself and had been mixing on the edge of the underworld from when he was 18.
So I believe the idea of using Hanratty as a foil just struck them as apt---imitate Jim-say that's your name and you were mistreated as a kid[which Hanratty was not of course ---and they'll never find out who he was and anyway Hanratty can prove he was in Liverpool if the police try to investigate.
The crucial thing to recognise is that the plan was never to cause physical harm to Gregsten or Valerie. The terrible scene when half Gregsten's head was blown off by accident in the Morris Minor was just that -an accident and never meant to happen.
What to do now then? There was little choice -keep on deflecting guilt away from the Frances' and continue to use Hanratty as a patsy because in 1961 even being party to being in possession of a gun was a very serious criminal offence if you did not have a licence.
I don't for one moment believe France killed himself because he had brought Hanratty into their home.France rubbed shoulders with some of the most vicious gangsters in London on the tables he oversaw in Soho.France was mortified to have sent his friend to the gallows when he knew very well he was completely innocent.France went to see Ewer to apologise for the atrocious mess they made out of a job they did for him. France committed suicide the day after Hanratty lost his appeal and he knew he was going to hang .

[moste]

So, Ewer having arranged the murder of Gregsten and the attempted murder of Miss Storie now finds to his horror that the latter has survived and has given an uncannily accurate description of Alphon, whom Ewer had arranged to be picked up on the A6 in or near Slough.

Ewer must act to direct attention away from Alphon, as investigation of Alphon by the police will in turn lead back to Ewer. He decides to pin the blame on J Ryan, aka James Hanratty, whom he sees leaving the dry cleaners.

Was Janet Gregsten involved in all this? Probably but then again possibly not, she is the person whom Ewer says spotted Ryan as the killer from his demeanour in the dry cleaners. But if Janet was so involved, one has to ask why did Ewer need to go to such lengths to possess her and why was it necessary to murder Michael Gregsten at such expense.

Ewer must also have planted the spent cartridge cases in the Vienna but taking care not to plant .32 ammunition used by Alphon but the more common .38 to match the gun planted on the 36A bus.

Talking of the bus, the plot to frame Hanratty must have had its inception prior to the planting of the gun on it. How did Ewer, who may or may not have planted the gun on the bus, know that the place under the rearmost seat of the upstairs deck was a favoured hiding place of Hanratty for his unwanted booty? As far as we know Charles France knew that that was a favoured Hanratty hiding place and also knew that Hanratty had stayed at the Vienna.

We must therefore assume that Charles France and William Ewer had concocted a plan with the ultimate aim to kill Michael Gregsten and to frame Hanratty for the crime.

Well done . We're starting to get the feel of the thing now aren't we ? just one thing ,Ewer, very wealthy ,hired people to do his dirty work, didn't do it himself. Ewer's knowledge of JH liking the buses back seat, he learned from France ,(Don't forget France's sobbing 'I need a hug' visit, some time later proving almost without doubt that there was something between these two dudes) As to Ewer already being in possession of Janet's favours, why would he deem it necessary to kill MG?. Because, consider this, (A)Mr. Ewer loved Janet with every fibre of his huge frame, he wanted her entirely for his own. (B) He had watched Michael treat his wife abominably for at least as long as his association with the fire, and then the road research companies,(remember what his good friend at the Fire research Labs had to say, "Michael was very much in love with a girl here, he talked of" leaving Janet and moving in with this young lady, "even back then! "My goodness" Ewer must have thought ,this bloke makes Casanova look like a Monk! We don't know that Ewer wasn't seething at Gregsten's treatment of Janet. All this talk about "I couldn't give Mike what he wanted" and Storie's "Oh we were all friends". Never heard such poppycock in all my life!
Still good post Spitfire and welcome aboard.

[moste]

Hi Natalie. From your post.. Oxford testifying in court under oath stated "on September 24th we did not know who Ryan was -he was only a name"
Ok, so we are to believe then, that Janet Gregsten's brother in laws telephone call to Scotland Yard, (after believing he had spotted the killer), re-the investigative work he had done, revealing that one J. Ryan had sent flowers to his mother a Mrs. Hanratty either (a) did not reach the brilliant detectives Acott and Oxford ,or (b) It had, and they had ignored it, or (c) they realised this was the break through they were looking for in the case, but chose not to involve Ewer in the developments ,for reasons known only to themselves.

[Natalie Severn]

Mosts-They had not put two and two together at that point.The information had just been filed away.

[Natalie Severn]

A post from some years back from Blue Moon who says they are related to the France family is interesting.

[moste]

Mosts-They had not put two and two together at that point.The information had just been filed away.

Ignored then! You reckon. Wow, that blue moon post was a real peach eh? what do you make of it?

[Natalie Severn]

I think it shines a light on what happened Moste.. And I feel sure William Ewer never intended there to be a murder ..... he just wanted Gregsten to get a good seeing to.

[moste]

To France desperate for money having lost his job, the chance to make a few hundred quid by getting a 'shooter' from the Rehearsal Club where he still played cards and knew everybody was an offer from Ewer he couldn't refuse.He had no intention of using it to harm physically ---that was not what he was asked to do.He may simply have been asked if he knew anyone willing to give Gregston a bit of stick ---make him see sense over leaving his wife and children.The idea of having a gun may have come from France because he had such easy access to them at the Rehearsal club and choosing a gun, a lethal weapon , created a pretty powerful threat inside a morris minor .But ---and there was a big but...suppose either Valerie or even Gregsten went back and rang the police once the gunman had left them and described the man ? Best therefore to wear a mask and pretend to be somebody else to deflect attention.What better than pretending to be a petty gangster? or a jail bird on the run? Don't forget either that France had probably had five weeks of getting his ears battered with Hanratty's tales of daring do in and out of the prison so he had all the fresh stories and street slang at his fingertips.He had also been in the nick himself and had been mixing on the edge of the underworld from when he was 18.
So I believe the idea of using Hanratty as a foil just struck them as apt---imitate Jim-say that's your name and you were mistreated as a kid[which Hanratty was not of course ---and they'll never find out who he was and anyway Hanratty can prove he was in Liverpool if the police try to investigate.
The crucial thing to recognise is that the plan was never to cause physical harm to Gregsten or Valerie. The terrible scene when half Gregsten's head was blown off by accident in the Morris Minor was just that -an accident and never meant to happen.
What to do now then? There was little choice -keep on deflecting guilt away from the Frances' and continue to use Hanratty as a patsy because in 1961 even being party to being in possession of a gun was a very serious criminal offence if you did not have a licence.
I don't for one moment believe France killed himself because he had brought Hanratty into their home.France rubbed shoulders with some of the most vicious gangsters in London on the tables he oversaw in Soho.France was mortified to have sent his friend to the gallows when he knew very well he was completely innocent.France went to see Ewer to apologise for the atrocious mess they made out of a job they did for him. France committed suicide the day after Hanratty lost his appeal and he knew he was going to hang .

The idea that the death of Gregsten was an accident.....I can't get my head around that .As we have examined in the past , around MGs left ear were the two entry wounds with tattooing around the wounds I assume the pathologist is here referring to powder burns. Now again as examined before there were two models of .38 weapons that may possibly have been used single action,(which involves 'cocking'(pulling back on the hammer spur) after each shot to engage the next bullet in the chamber So if this was an accident, we can rule this one out completely. That leaves the second model of .38 weapon which is double action, this is easier for an amateur to use because squeezing the trigger to fire a round, also simultaneously turns the chamber (barrel) to engage the next round. Now performing this action in less than a second, with the amount of pressure required on the trigger in both shoots would, I submit, negate the eventuality of an accident.(remember, more than a few milliseconds between shots and the head would have moved significantly.) PS. Did I mention IMHO Simpson didn't make a mistake with identifying the .32 slugs he dug out of Storie's arm. But thats something else.

[cobalt]

OK, Ewer must be involved. His actions in alerting the police to Ryan cannot be explained any other way.

But there are so many problems with this. First of all, how did Alphon get wind of the plan if he was not directly involved? He was, I think, the first to put up the ‘frightener’ theory in public. How on earth did he manage to work that out? Did he glean this from his police interrogations? Which means the police were aware of this possibility from the start.

And do not tell me that France, who apparently rubbed shoulders with London gangland, settled upon Alphon, an Almanac salesman, as his Mr Fixit. That is risible. France must have had a dozen better candidates loafing around the Rehearsal Club. Ewer might have been unworldly enough to buy the Alphon package, but not Dixie France.

Second, why has Valerie Storie maintained her silence all these years? The ‘frightener’ was aimed at breaking up her relationship with Gregsten, so she has had no reason to protect the forces that were striving to do this, especially since she has subsequently been confined to a wheelchair. She lost the love of her life and her mobility: so why protect Ewer and scapegoat Hanratty? She was in the car and privy to details that have never been made public; she must have been able to work out what was going on if indeed this was a ‘frightener.’

Third, why the lack of purpose in the enterprise? A good, sharp, shock might just have made Gregsten think again. I assume Ewer had tried a man-to-man talk that fell on stony ground, so this was his last resort. But a pointless drive around North London, with the woman in question present, which could only cement Gregsten and Storie’s sense of solidarity? No obvious escape route for the enforcer? Or at best a pick up about 5 hours later? This is tenth rate gangsterism. If you can’t make your point with a loaded gun within 5 minutes you are presumably wasting your time after 5 hours.

This Blue Moon theory also renders obsolete the coincidence of Alphon staying at the Vienna, his bizarre behaviour in the aftermath of the murder which alerted the police to him, and his reported sightings in Slough.

[Ed James]

[QUOTE=cobalt;348800]OK, Ewer must be involved. His actions in alerting the police to Ryan cannot be explained any other way.

Hi Cobalt

I can feel some attachment to Nat's compelling explanation of the abduction but still have some nagging doubts.

But lets stick with the notion of Ewer commissioning France to arrange for a gunman to confront the couple in the car , the key question is what exactly did he commission? What is clear from the outcome is that what was commissioned was either not clearly conveyed or the gunman was incapable of carrying it out.

I think there is a case that the target was essentially Gregsten. Valerie Storie had already shown herself to be the strong one of the pair, even visiting the Gregsten home on a couple of occasions and steadfastly refusing to end the relationship even with pressure from her employer. We know from Ewer's statement of 11 September 1961 that Gregsten was in turmoil and felt he should be struck down by God forwhat he was doing. His religious upbringing in Christian Science made him vulnerable to acts/thoughts of evil against him.

So what if the commission had been vague, not clearly communicated via France but focused on securing Gregsten's specific acknowledgement in some way that what he was engaged in was wrong. Could the length of the abduction be explained by the gunman waiting to see signs of this from Gregsten ? When the threat was actually (possibly predictably) creating greater solidarity between the couple.

Cobalt wrote: But there are so many problems with this. First of all, how did Alphon get wind of the plan if he was not directly involved? He was, I think, the first to put up the ‘frightener’ theory in public.

It is unclear to me how Alphon had so many insights about the case, unless of course he was merely speculating or perhaps was originally sounded out by Ewer through their association at far right wing meetings before Ewer turned to France. I agree that France normally wouldn't pick Alphon for the job , or Hanratty for that matter.

Cobalt wrote Second, why has Valerie Storie maintained her silence all these years? The ‘frightener’ was aimed at breaking up her relationship with Gregsten, so she has had no reason to protect the forces that were striving to do this, .’

Having gone through such a horrendous experience and invested so much in identifying the culprit, there is no way that she is going to give any credibility to the 'inside job' theory , much as others don't.

If we accept Ewer's involvement before the event, I don't think in the panic afterwards he was involved in the decision of where to dump the gun. It could be that France made that decision under pressure from the gunman anxious to dispel any police link to the killer hailing from the Wanstead area where the car was dumped.

At the same time, if things became hot, France could reveal that Hanratty used the back seat of a bus as a hiding place.

ATB
Ed