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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Non-Canonical Victims > Emma Smith

View Poll Results: Emma Smith was attacked by
A gang of men 25 60.98%
Jack the Ripper 6 14.63%
Someone else 1 2.44%
A gang of men which included Jack the Ripper 9 21.95%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 10-01-2012, 10:29 PM
Roy Corduroy Roy Corduroy is offline
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Default Vote Here II

You are invited to vote your opinion.

The other poll expired, but this one won't.

Last edited by Roy Corduroy : 10-01-2012 at 10:40 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-02-2012, 06:22 AM
Phil H Phil H is offline
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I have voted for "a gang-of men" but was tempted by someone else.

In short, I have nothing but the traditionally accepted story of Emma's fate to go on. But it could, IMHO, equally have een a discontented punter who did for her.

Another alternative is not that "Jack" was part of the gang who attacked her, but as it was on a public street, he might have witnessed the attack and gained a malevolent inspiration from it.

I don't think there is any evidence or logic to an assumption that she was a victim of "Jack".

Phil H
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  #3  
Old 10-02-2012, 06:49 AM
Sally Sally is offline
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Default Gang

I voted for a gang, because that is what contemporary testimony suggests was the case. I don't think there is any real doubt about that.

A 'gang' might not have any permanency though - it could represent anything from a self-established group who enjoyed roughing up prostitutes to a few occasional drinking companions who'd had a bit too much on that occasion.

Whether or not 'Jack' was one of them is debatable. There are some good arguments for his inclusion in such a gang if we accept the traditional premise of a single killer.
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  #4  
Old 10-02-2012, 06:49 AM
DVV DVV is offline
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The way I understand the whole case tells me she was a JtR victim.

@ Phil H : at least, I consider there is enough evidence that she lied. Wrong place, wrong timing, no witness, and her horrible injury has nothing to do with a street attack for some pence.
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  #5  
Old 10-02-2012, 06:54 AM
DVV DVV is offline
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Hi Roy,
many thanks for opening this new poll. The precanonical cases are SO interesting and important and at the same time SO neglected.
Cos it's SO cooooooool to rave about MJK being alive after her murder, instead.
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  #6  
Old 10-02-2012, 07:02 AM
Phil H Phil H is offline
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@ Phil H : at least, I consider there is enough evidence that she lied.

I agree, Emma was almost certainly covering something up - but there is nothing with which to replace the questionable testimony. So where does that leave us.

I suppose I would, ideally, have liked a "none of the above" option in the poll, but hey-ho. I see absolutely nothing solid to link "Jack" to this crime - apart from the date which might be when whoever killed Polly was beginning to work himself up to the deed.

I don't think that the man who thrust the piece of wood into Emma necessarily intended to kill her. It sounds like warning from a pimp (or alternatively the action of a dissatisfied customer, though I think that less likely. If a pimp - maybe that was what frightened her.

Phil H
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  #7  
Old 10-02-2012, 07:27 AM
DVV DVV is offline
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Quote:
I agree, Emma was almost certainly covering something up - but there is nothing with which to replace the questionable testimony. So where does that leave us.
Not exactly, Phil. Inspector West clearly disbelieved Emma, as did the coroner : "The poor woman has been murdered, but by whom there is no evidence to show." Of course we don't know what happened exactly, nor where and when, but that's hardly a reason to step back to Emma's poor little story.
She was a prostitute and must have been murdered in a dark/lonely spot, like others.

Quote:
I don't think that the man who thrust the piece of wood into Emma necessarily intended to kill her.
"The coroner, in summing up, said that from medical evidence, which must be true, it was perfectly clear that the poor woman had been murdered."
That said, I agree that the deed displays more cruelty than straight desire to kill.

Quote:
It sounds like warning from a pimp (or alternatively the action of a dissatisfied customer, though I think that less likely. If a pimp - maybe that was what frightened her.
I'm afraid there was no pimp in Emma's life 1888. And no pimp would destroy his (her) very means of existence, would he ? Moreover, if that was what pimps did at the time, we would have other examples. Emma's murder is quite unique. A customer is imo more likely. Not really "dissatisfied" but rather : very special.
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  #8  
Old 10-02-2012, 07:39 AM
DVV DVV is offline
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Default But...

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Originally Posted by DVV View Post
Emma's murder is quite unique.
...but reminds me of the Horsenellnail and Millwoodward cases.
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  #9  
Old 10-02-2012, 09:25 AM
miakaal4 miakaal4 is offline
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I do not believe that Smith or Tabram for that matter were JtR vics. However, what is really weird is why in '88 there were suddenly all these attacks on the fallen woman. Could this have inspired the others? Considering the sexual repression of the time, it may have been stimulating to the more depraved to read of something being "thrust" into poor Emma.
sally I think you have a good point regarding the word "gang". It depends on it's use of meaning. They could have been a group of guys who had just met up and got drunk, then gone out to have some fun. Only this "fun" was for Emma Smith, distinctly one way. The thing for me that undermines this is that they would have all have to have been in on it fully. Because when the ballon did go up and things got really serious, I think anyone in the "gang" who did not approve of the attack would have grassed the others to the police. Trouble with that is...I'm wrong a lot!
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  #10  
Old 10-03-2012, 07:58 AM
DVV DVV is offline
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Hi Miakaal

Quote:
Originally Posted by miakaal4 View Post
I do not believe that Smith or Tabram for that matter were JtR vics. However, what is really weird is why in '88 there were suddenly all these attacks on the fallen woman. Could this have inspired the others?
Indeed. But then why not the same man - from Horsnell to Kelly ?
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