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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Tumblety, Francis

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Old 04-26-2013, 04:50 AM
Jonathan H Jonathan H is offline
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Default Andrews was investigating Tumblety

From 'Inspector Andrews Revisited Part III: International Man of Mystery' by R J Palmer, published in 'The Casebook Examiner' Issue Four, October 2010:

'[Dr. Robert] Anderson was not employed at the Home Office when the [Parnell] article appeared in May, 1997. As we have seen, he had been "relieved of all duties in regard to Fenian work" in the spring of of 1884. Anderson was now actually working for James Monro at the Met, and his appointment as Assistant commissioner was still a year and a half away.'
p. 11

'If we are to accept the premise that Andrews went to America on behalf of "The Times", a necessary link in the chain of evidence is to show he had been authorized to do so by senior officers at Scotland Yard.'

'To state that this meant that Monro was "against the Irish movement" implies that he would have been equally willing to allow the illegal use of Scotland Yard detectives to conspire against the entirely legal Home Rule movement through collusion with "The Times". There is little evidence that this was Monro's attitude, and, indeed, we have his views on the matter.' p.13


Anderson claimed in a 1910 letter that his writing of the Parnell letters had Monro's approval. Tipped off by Macnaghten, the latter vehemently denied this in a letter to "The Times" (as a side note we see here typically, I think, hands-on Mac versus self-servingly forgetful, foot-in-mouth Anderson):

'"The alleged statement of Anderson to an interviewer that it was arranged between him and me that he should write ... is absolutely incorrect ... My principle throughout has ever been in police matters, politics have no place -- and this principle I followed during the whole time I was at Scotland Yard ... whether the government was Liberal or Conservative ..."' p. 15


Sir Charles Warren was actually still, by a few weeks, the Commissioner when Andrews was sent on his North American trip, not quite yet Monro.

'[Sir Charles] Warren, the military man, had a strong aversion to 'secret work' and would have vigorously resisted any attempt by his subordinates to engage Scotland Yard in any politically motivated chicanery. The record is quite clear on this. Throughout the first half of 1888, Warren fought bitterly with Monro, believing he was spending too much time and anti-Fenian work. ... Given such attitudes it is clearly ridiculous to suggest that Warren, who had already announced his resignation in Nov 1888, would risk a political scandal, not to mention his own reputation, by authorizing a nefarious mission to ruin the Parnellites.' p. 16

' ... what isn't revealed [in mundane contemporaneous records] is why Andrews stayed in Toronto for a full eight days inclusive, and thus we are left entirely in the dark as to why he was in the city.' p. 17

'By December 19th, however, Andrews lingered in and around Toronto for another week, and "The Mail" now exuded a far more conspiratorial tone. Under the title "What They Are After" and subtitled "The Scotland Yard detective Works 'The Times' Case" and would be the earliest allegation that Andrews was actually in Canada to drum up witnesses for the Parnell commission ... "Now" [Andrews] said, "as I am leaving, I do not mind telling you that I have obtained some important clues in the Parnell case--things I never dreamed of before. But I can say no more, so don't press me." ... But Inspector Andrews is not the only officer of Scotland Yard in America present on a similar mission. Inspector Fred Jarvis, a bosom friend of his, and also Chief Inspector Shore, of the same department, are in the United States hunting evidence. It is said for over three years three of Pinkerton's most expert men have been at work on the Irish National Societies.'


There are more examples by Palmer of adverse local media reports exposing Andrews as a stooge for the anti-Parnell brigade.

What Palmer does is show us the primary sources, in detail, where Andrews is quoted as admitting that he is there to obtain evidence, documents and/or witnesses against Parnell as really a supporter of terrorism. That therefore "The Times" has not committed a libel against this Irish politician, who was supposedly campaigning for a peaceful transition to some kind of Irish independence.

You cannot help but begin to question the veracity of these 'scoops' for the following reasons:

1. Could Andrews, a highly regarded professional, really be that inept, incompetent and indiscreet as to give the whole game away about the Parnell imbroglio?

Isn't the cover story that he is there for the Ripper?

Why doesn't this blundering idiot then use it?

2. Supposedly confirming this version of events are two hopelessly biased sources: Patrick Boyle, a pro-Fenian and editor of 'The Irish-Canadian', and R.B. Teefy treasurer of the Toronto branch of the Irish National League. The latter made the incendiary claim that witnesses had been lining up for Andrews buy, so as to perjure themselves before the Parnell inquiry (although the bait has apparently not been taken).

3. A piece in 'The New York Herald' of Dec 23rd 8888 is suspiciously similar in wording to the one in 'The Mail', with just the city of Montreal subbing for Toronto (and the second version hedging its bets with the title: 'The Alleged Indiscretions of an English Detective'.) The night editor of the NY paper was none other than 'General' Frank Millen, who was a:

'... Fenian skirmisher, extraordinaire, member of the Can na Gael, sometimes profiteer in the pay of Robert Anderson (and later Edward Jenkinson)--the same Millen whom Assistant Met Police Commissioner James Monro would later name as the mastermind behind the Jubilee dynamite plot of 1887. In a strange but perhaps significant twist, it is also known that Millen himself was in negotiation with Joseph Soames of 'The Times' to give evidence before the Commission. As pointed out by journalist Christy Campbell, 'The New York Herald's' owner, James Gorden Bennett, 'delighted' in hiring such rabble rousing characters, filling 'The Herald's' office with more Irish rebels than a Clan-na-Gael picnic.' p. 23

4. On Jan 16th the same paper published an even more outlandish tale that Andrews, Jarvis and Shore had gone so far as to conspire with Irish nationalists to blow up a ship in New York Harbour.

That ruins the credibility of the other accounts, surely?

5. Robert Pinkerton publicly denied the story of his agency's connection to all these shenanigans, finishing with 'Inspector Andrews is unknown to us' p. 24

6. The similar article in 'The New York World' and 'The Boston Globe', Dec 22nd and Dec 23rd respectively, called 'Polluted Hands', claimed that Andrews had already done 'dirty work' against the League in England and Ireland which is highly unlikely (his known movements show him in London investigating criminal cases of theft) and the source for this is R.B. Teefy.

Mundane records show that the article is wrong about Andrews' movements:

'Thus, at the time Andrews was supposedly soliciting Irishmen in Montreal, he was actually three hundred miles away in Toronto ... This leaves the veracity of the article in grave doubt, but, nonetheless, it goes on to describe secret meetings with a 'resident detective' in Toronto named 'Sketchely', and the subsequent travels of Andrews around the Great Lakes region.' p. 26

Thus Palmer has established that the agenda, the details and the sources of these newspapers accounts are all questionable -- especially as it all hinges on Anderson sending an idiot with a big gob (also the physical description of Andrews in this article does not match the real detective, suggesting further falsity, or that they were trailing the wrong man?)

'In truth, those who have put faith in the veracity of these and similar accounts are seemingly unaware that 19th century news reports dealing with Irish nationalism were notoriously unreliable. Not only are there many examples of entirely bogus 'interviews' being published, but the nationalist press frequently printed out-and-out misinformation solely designed to embarrass the British government.' p. 28

Palmer provides examples to back up this statement (eg. 'interviews' with William Lomasney who had actually blown himself up, and Scotland Yard were in no doubt about his demise.)

7. The radical, pro-Irish Liberal, Henry Labouchere, asked in the Commons if Andrews had met with the agent Henri Le Caron (real name Thomas Miller Beach) and the Home Sec. the definitely inept Henry Matthews replied ambiguously.

This is used as evidence by detractors that therefore Andrews did meet Caron, even though it would mean that Matthews was also giving the game away to a hated Liberal opponent, and that Anderson had betrayed his agent, Miller, by revealing his true identity to a police detective.

But the biggest negative against this theory is that Caron was not in North America at the required date to meet Andrews; he was already in England attending to his dying father.

Palmer provides several primary sources to back this up (including the record of the father's death). He also shows that in the Commons, Matthews was much more definitive responding to Labouchere's further claim that Jarvis had been doing the same as Andrews. The answer was no.

Monro, furthermore, was moved to write to "The Times" on April 19th, 1890, agreeing with the Home Sec:

' ... Since I became Assistant Commissioner of Police in 1884 until now, neither Inspector Jarvis nor any other officer of the Metropolitan Police has been at any time within many hundred miles of either Kansas or Colorado, nor has any officer of the force been in America assisting 'The Times', directly or indirectly, in connection with their case before the Special Commission'.

Palmer shows from other primary sources that Irish agents had probably mistaken a Canadian private detective for Jarvis, so the Liberal politician was wrong on both counts.

Labouchere was humiliated, had to pay legal costs, and issue a public apology.

As Palmer argues, for those newspaper reports -- who were known to fabricate to advance their political agenda -- to be true we have to accept that Anderson, Monro, Pinkerton, Miller et al. lied (and lied for years and years) and that Andrews was so useless he forgot his Whitechapel cover story and admitted the truth, to the sworn enemies of the anti-Irish.

A police detective, moreover, who had nothing to do with Irish affairs but who was, according to Walter Dew, working the Ripper case (Riordan fails to mention this source in an entire, very dull book devoted to Tumblety).

Plus as Palmer argues 'where are his results' if Andrews was in Canada on an illegal Parnell fishing expedition?


Did Andrews meet with Canadian law enforcement, presumably about Tumblety if it was not about Parnell?

From the 'St Louis Republican', Montreal, Dec 22nd 1888:

'... It was announced at police headquarters today that Andrews has a commission in connection with other Scotland Yard men to find the murderer in america. His inaction for so long a time, and the fact that a man, suspected of knowing considerable about the murders left England for this side three weeks ago, makes the London police believe "Jack" has left the country for this." p. 42

Palmer argues that '... it is known that Andrews did meet with Montreal Police Chief George Hughes that afternoon ... In fact, it is uncertain how long Andrews stayed in Montreal: one account has him leaving on the 20th, another on the 22nd ... Andrews may well have stayed in Montreal for two days.' ps. 42-3

Thus plenty of time to confer.

Why Canada?

Why do a background on a prime Ripper suspect check there?

Anderson may have mistakenly believed Dr T was an Irish-Canadian.

It has been argued that this seems extremely flimsy because Tumblety had not been back to that country for thirty years.

Palmer counter-argues that this is not so, and provides primary sources to back it up.

George Harcourt wrote to 'The Mail' on Nov 22nd 1888 claiming that Tumblety had been there in Toronto, in 1883, because he had personally ordered a coat from his shop -- and was a hard customer to forget:

' ... He was in the store several times, and being of striking appearance, excited our curiosity. He was over six feet in height, stout and dark. He was possessed of plenty of money and showed us several very valuable diamond rings which he carried in his pocket. ... we have no doubt that this is the same Dr. Tumblety ...'

Both 'The Mail' and 'The Globe' claimed on Nov 23rd 1888 that Tumblety had been in Toronto in Jan 1888:

'Dr. Francis Tumblety who was arrested in London recently on suspicion of being implicated in the Whitechapel murders, was in Toronto for a few days January last. That was his last visit to this city.' p. 45

A reporter interviews Tumblety who is maudlin about the sad state of his health (yet he would live another fifteen years) and who shows off his letters from Napoleon III, John Bright and Lord Baconsfield.

Both the talisman-like letters from celebrities and handy diamonds are obscure details which surely would only be known only to a person who really was in the presence of Tumblety.

There is yet another newspaper report that Tumblety even returned to Canada in May of that year; from 'The Toronto Globe', Nov 23rd 1888 :

' ... his fellow-passengers became much interested in the doctor, who is a man of striking presence, pleasant manners and great conversational powers ... a chasing, reckless and adventurous man but not one who would be guilty of a crime.' (here it is claimed he has a letter from Lincoln)


Lastly there is the tantalizing primary source discovered by Evans and Rumbelow which shows that Sir Charles Warren, in his last days as Commissioner, awarded commendations to Inspectors Marshall, Littlechild, Swanson and Andrews.

'There is seemingly no prosecution in Dec 1888, or throughout early 1889, that refers to arrests made by [the foursome] Thus whatever case Warren was referring to remains an enigma ...' p. 48
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  #2  
Old 04-26-2013, 02:36 PM
mklhawley mklhawley is offline
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Thanks Jonathan,

If you are a serious student of the Whitechapel mystery, then reading this is a must. It is a huge piece of the puzzle, since it confirms what Chief Inspector Littlechild stated as Tumblety being ‘a very likely suspect’. Now, before someone serves up a red-herring pie, and says, “Yah, but Tumblety’s mustache was too big to be the killer”, this thread is only dealing with Scotland Yard’s suspicions of Francis Tumblety immediately after the Kelly murder. Just two years ago, the expert Ripperology community was not privy to Palmer’s discoveries, and they were also not privy to a powerful piece of corroborating evidence that Sir Robert Anderson was PERSONALLY contacting US Chiefs of Police about the very same Ripper suspect,


Brooklyn Citizen, November 23, 1888
“Is He The Ripper?” A Brooklynite Charged With the Whitechapel Murders Superintendent Campbell Asked by the London Police to Hunt Up the Record of Francis Tumblety — Captain Eason Supplies the Information and It Is Interesting

Police Superintendent Campbell received a cable dispatch yesterday from Mr. Anderson, the deputy chief of the London Police, asking him to make some inquiries about Francis Tumblety, who is under arrest in England on the charge of indecent assault. Tumblety is referred to in the dispatch in the following manner: “He says he is known to you, Chief, as Brooklyn’s Beauty”…



We even have the contents of a cable dispatch from Anderson actually naming a Jack the Ripper suspect. How many other examples are there of a significant player in the investigation in 1888 naming a suspect?

How much corroborating evidence do we need to show that Andrews came over for the Ripper murders? …and then from a completely different source in 1928 stating this (courtesy of Stewart Evans)’

Name:  andrewslogan 1928.jpg
Views: 909
Size:  195.7 KB


Now, is this cherry picking? Note that Logan published this in 1928, at a time when there were absolutely no Tumblety enthusiasts.

Sincerely,

Mike
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Old 04-26-2013, 03:34 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Default He was a fiend of mine.

Hello Mike. Thanks for posting this.

Playing devil's advocate, is it barely possible that Andrews was indeed sent to America to hunt the fiend, but Tumblety NOT being the fiend of concern?

Cheers.
LC
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:08 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Mike,

How did Guy Logan "know" this for a fact?

Regards,

Simon
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:29 PM
moonbegger moonbegger is offline
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Very intriguing JH & Mike

Could this indeed be the " Hot Potato" ( Irish Reference ) that was dropped ?

cheers ,

Moonbegger.
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:03 PM
mklhawley mklhawley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Hello Mike. Thanks for posting this.

Playing devil's advocate, is it barely possible that Andrews was indeed sent to America to hunt the fiend, but Tumblety NOT being the fiend of concern?

Cheers.
LC
Hi Lynn,

According to primary sources, Andrews' other agenda (besides extraditing a Canadian) was either hunting for the Whitechapel murderer or hunting up witnesses in the Parnell conspiracy. Case in point:

Name:  Andrews World News Dec 88.jpeg
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Were you justing a third possibility?

Sincerely,

Mike
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:34 PM
mklhawley mklhawley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Hi Mike,

How did Guy Logan "know" this for a fact?

Regards,

Simon
Hi Simon,

Where did he say he knew this for a fact? 'For a fact' is a phrase referring to a level of confidence in something. Logan was talking about a fact, i.e., an actual event, that he knew about thanks to a source informing him of it. He was 19 at the time of the murders and he was just under 60 when he wrote this particular book. He was in communication with people who experienced the case.

Are you saying he made this up? Funny how this matched reality so closely. Where would he have receive this info?

Sincerely,

Mike
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:41 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello Mike. Thanks.

"Were you justing a third possibility?"

Merely wondering if he could have been sent for the Whitechapel fiend, BUT the fiend was some other suspect?

Cheers.
LC
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:05 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Mike,

How do you know Guy Logan was "in communication with people who experienced the case"?

Who's to say he hadn't simply read about Inspector Andrews in the US press?

Regards,

Simon
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:20 PM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Hello Mike. Thanks.

"Were you justing a third possibility?"

Merely wondering if he could have been sent for the Whitechapel fiend, BUT the fiend was some other suspect?

Cheers.
LC
Hi all,

If one considers some other suspect, the one who might be being considered would be Cream, whom Altick suggests could have been pro-Fenian, and was in a prison in Illinois that Le Caron had worked in too. But Cream was not out of Joliet until 1891.

Robert Pinkerton was very protective about his company's reputation for secrecy for their clients. He was upset when certain information he talked of in confidence to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle regarding James McParlane's involvement in smashing the "Molly Maguires" in the Pennsylvania Coal Fields in the 1870s ended up as material for the last Sherlock Holmes' novel, "The Valley of Fear", and it ended his friendship with Conan Doyle. I mention this because his denying the investigation with (or without) Inspector Andrews may be taken as his lying to maintain confidentiality for his company and the client involved.

Which book by Guy B. H. Logan are you referring to? I have three of them, but I can't recall the quote. Logan (like George Dilnot) had some contacts at Scotland Yard.

Jeff
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