Jack, Son of Jack

[MayBea]

Isn't it strange that George West says "her mother was a big stout woman"? He is referring to Birkenhead MJK's mother, isn't he?

Or is he saying the child's mother was big? And that the child was therefore a female?

[Paddy]

Maybea

Hi
Thanks for that link on Catholic christenings.
I am not sure, all I can say is that of the loads of Catholic records I saw, some had both parents named, some had just one parent and some had two parents of different surnames.
I just took it to be what I saw, was how it was.

I have just read the letter again, yes it does say that she had a child, you are correct. It also says she had a mother. If she was in prison the child would be in care or with family.

Robert and Mary Janes daughter Rosa was named thus on catholic record, so in life I think she could have been plain Rose.....

Pat..............................

[MayBea]

Sorry, you're right. I was looking under Rosa. Here is Rose Wilson's death record:

Deaths Mar 1879 (FreeBMD)

Wilson Rose 0 W. Derby 8b 310

Was her death the beginning of the downfall of the family?

[Paddy]

Maybea ....Mary Janes sister?

Hi again,
I found a marriage at Everton St Saviours Liverpool of an Elizabeth Kelly to Thomas Farrell. Both Full Age dated March 3rd 1874.
Her father is John Kelly a Joiner just like Mary Janes father
I would imagine this Elizabeth and Mary Jane are sisters?

Pat.....................................

[MayBea]

Its strange I have a friend whos parents came from Ireland back a bit and she was born in Everton Liverpool name of Wilson. I seem to think her dad was called Isaac. ...

I found one Isaac Wilson in the 1881 Census. His father is James Wilson, plasterer. I'm wondering if this might be Robert Wilson's twin brother.

1881 Cenus

James Wilson 26
Margaret Wilson 20
Margaret Wilson 2
Isaac Wilson 7

1861 census

Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Alban
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

James Wilson 40
Rose Wilson 41
Thomas Wilson 17
Jane Wilson 14
Robert Wilson 9
James Wilson 9

[Paddy]

Isaac

Hi Maybea

I checked it out and found her father Frederick Lewis birth to a John and Mary. I found her father Frederick Lewis Wilson in the Ragged school (as she had also told me), so I think my friend may have got it wrong about his fathers name. There was an Eli Wilson in the family too....I cant find any immediate connection....

Found a death of a child Mary jane Kelly daughter of Mary Ann Kelly, She was charged with neglect with a partner called Cunningham. Will find record later as it would discount Mary Anne (Birkenhead) being anything to do with Dorset Street Mary....

Pat.......................

[MayBea]

It would be great if they were related to Robert Wilson. Then it would just be a matter of doing a relational DNA test to see if Jack Wilson's descendants are their cousin.

That would prove Robert Wilson was indeed his father and he had no connection to Whitechapel.

I already found some Wilson relatives on Ancestry but they declined.

[Paddy]

Wilsons

Am checking it out.

So Far.....
My friends father Frederick was son of a John Wilson a carter, born 1894 Everton (not the James and mary I thought) cant find his wife as yet.
John had a brother called Eli born 1870s.
Eli was with his grandfather Eli (b1841 cheshire) in 1881 census Everton

Am just checking out other siblings. be back..

Pat

[MayBea]

Hi again,
I found a marriage at Everton St Saviours Liverpool of an Elizabeth Kelly to Thomas Farrell....I would imagine this Elizabeth and Mary Jane are sisters?

This Mary Jane had one sister according to the records--Ann A Kelly/Dixon/Dagnall. Ann moved to Birkenhead, and their mother Mary was with her there in 1881 when she was a widow with a one year old son. That's the reason I believe Mary Jane may also have been in Birkenhead around the same time with her own newborn.

[Paddy]

Wilsons.

Too many Elis confused !!!!

John b 1866 (my friends grandfather) is the son of the Eli born c1834 Sutton Cheshire a carter and his wife Mary H ?
Some of Eli and Marys children were born in Birkenhead (up to about 1870 then Everton) Eli, Alice, Mary, Matilda, Esther, John and William (so far)

Do you know Roberts parents names ?

Pat.......................

[Paddy]

Mary Janes Sister

I am almost sure that that Elizabeth is Mary Janes sister as they both have their father John Kelly being a joiner. Also witness at Elizabeths wedding is Annie Kelly.

In 1881 census Living with Thomas Farrell b 1853 Ireland and wife Elizabeth at 19 Kepler street, Everton is Ann Kelly, Joiners widow, born 1813 Lancs

Have a look at RG11/3664 pages 2 and 3

Pat........

[Paddy]

Maybea

Sent you a private message......

Pat.....................

[MayBea]

Do you know Roberts parents names ?

They would be James and Rose Wilson.

Here they are in 1861 in St. Alban, Lancashire:

James Wilson 40
Rose Wilson 41
Thomas Wilson 17
Jane Wilson 14
Robert Wilson 9
James Wilson 9

[MayBea]

I am almost sure that that Elizabeth is Mary Janes sister...In 1881 census Living with Thomas Farrell b 1853 Ireland and wife Elizabeth at 19 Kepler street, Everton is Ann Kelly, Joiners widow, born 1813 Lancs

Have a look at RG11/3664 pages 2 and 3...

I had a look but it doesn't fit. Mary Jane's mother is Mary Kelly ne. Dulihead/Dowlan/Dolehaunt. In 1881, she is not a widow and is in Birkenhead with Ann, while John Kelly, joiner, is with Mary Jane in Liverpool as you found in post #29.

[MayBea]

...John b 1866 (my friends grandfather) is the son of the Eli born c1834 Sutton Cheshire a carter and his wife Mary H ?...

James and Rose Wilson would have arrived in Liverpool around 1850. So they are probably not related to the Wilsons in Cheshire.

Sons Robert and James are listed as 9 in the 1861 Census and their other children ages 17 and 14 were born in Ireland. So I'm guessing they were potato famine refugees.