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Hutchinsons statement....

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  • #16
    Originally posted by John G View Post
    This is a bit of al long shot, but does anyone know if John McCarthy owned an astrachan coat? Obviously I'm not trying to imply anything, although interestingly he was 37 in 1888, so about 35 years of age!
    But wouldn't Hutch have known who he was. If he had seen him around a bit.
    G U T

    There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by GUT View Post
      But wouldn't Hutch have known who he was. If he had seen him around a bit.
      Yes, that's a very good point. Of course, Hutchinson's identity is shrouded in mystery so its difficult to determine how long he may have been living in the locality, and therefore how familiar, if familiar at all, the important local characters may have been to him.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by John G View Post
        Of course, Hutchinson's identity is shrouded in mystery...
        Look no further, John, for this is he:

        Click image for larger version

Name:	George Hutchinson.jpg
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        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by John G View Post
          Yes, that's a very good point. Of course, Hutchinson's identity is shrouded in mystery so its difficult to determine how long he may have been living in the locality, and therefore how familiar, if familiar at all, the important local characters may have been to him.
          But he reported it was someone he'd seen around, it seems likely he was familiar with MJK probably visited. But not know Mc. I struggle to accept it as a proposition.
          G U T

          There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
            Look no further, John, for this is he:

            [ATTACH]18039[/ATTACH]
            nope. here he is.
            Attached Files
            "Is all that we see or seem
            but a dream within a dream?"

            -Edgar Allan Poe


            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

            -Frederick G. Abberline

            Comment


            • #21
              "All other witness descriptions in the whole case are similar innocuous statements as one would expect, yet hutch is got all this nonsense going on.
              something aint right, and it dosnt take a genius (or it shouldn't) to see it.
              Hes lying.

              Hello Abby,

              Assuming the above is correct that would indeed make him a liar. It does not however make him a murderer. Abberline and the rest of the boys at Scotland Yard might not have been geniuses but I don't think they were fools. Liar or not it would seem that they didn't think him involved in Mary's murder.

              c.d.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                "All other witness descriptions in the whole case are similar innocuous statements as one would expect, yet hutch is got all this nonsense going on.
                something aint right, and it dosnt take a genius (or it shouldn't) to see it.
                Hes lying.

                Hello Abby,

                Assuming the above is correct that would indeed make him a liar. It does not however make him a murderer. Abberline and the rest of the boys at Scotland Yard might not have been geniuses but I don't think they were fools. Liar or not it would seem that they didn't think him involved in Mary's murder.

                c.d.
                I agree. He could have just been looking for gain.
                Or a murderer. I can't get over the stalking behavior.

                All we know is that abberline believed him.....initially. Remember though when hutch told abberline his story about waiting and watching,it was just after the inquest where Sarah Lewis talked about the waiting man. I think this is why abberline believed him at first.
                "Is all that we see or seem
                but a dream within a dream?"

                -Edgar Allan Poe


                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                -Frederick G. Abberline

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by GUT View Post
                  Jon

                  While it was possible he was dressed the same, if Hutch had seen him around before, he didn't need to be dressed the same for Hutch to recognise him.
                  No, thats true.
                  What he is reported to have said was:
                  " I fancied that I saw him in Petticoat-lane on Sunday morning, but I was not certain."
                  So, maybe he only wore some of the same clothing, but not everything.

                  Ordinary people didn't have a variety of clothing, generally they wore all they owned, so they wore the same thing every day.
                  In the Doss-house they daren't even undress, if they did someone might pinch their 'stuff' while they were asleep.

                  In the case of Astrakhan, it appears he embellished his looks, so, similar to Joseph Isaacs, this character may have liked to pretend to be someone he wasn't.
                  Regards, Jon S.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by John G View Post
                    This is a bit of al long shot, but does anyone know if John McCarthy owned an astrachan coat? Obviously I'm not trying to imply anything, although interestingly he was 37 in 1888, so about 35 years of age!
                    Hutchinson's 'suspect' apparently "looked Jewish".
                    Regards, Jon S.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                      No, thats true.
                      What he is reported to have said was:
                      " I fancied that I saw him in Petticoat-lane on Sunday morning, but I was not certain."
                      I was really referring to Hutch's statement that head seen Ash man around before the night he saw him with MJK
                      G U T

                      There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I had a great Aunt, born about 1902, who was known to many as Few Clothes, because she had only two changes of "Weekday" and one "Sunday Best" for many years, and her family was way better off than most of the doss house dwellers we read about hear.
                        G U T

                        There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by andy1867 View Post
                          I have been reading the forum, listening to the podcasts, I rarely post as most seems to have been covered.
                          Some seem to find Hutchinsons statement as rather "too exact" "too precise" and discount it as untrue for those, I suppose, plausible reasons, I mean who takes THAT much notice?
                          But reading through it tonight, there is one part where Hutchinson states...
                          and I paraphrase....
                          "He hid his head ...I stooped down and looked at his face"
                          Thats surely someone who is paying careful attention isn't it?..
                          So maybe the rest of his statement may not be that far off the mark
                          This has been debated before, but if he was so detailed why not mention Sarah Lewis.Hutchinson's and Lewis's timings coincide. He could not have missed her.Just by that he was not an ordinary witness who would just tell things matter-of-factly.
                          Surely Kelly's murder would have been big news and he would have known about it.If he had known her for 3 years,giving her money here and there,concerned about her that early morning,that her companion was unusually attired and with a parcel in his left-hand,why would he not report to the police immediately.A 3-dollar bill.
                          Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced,it started civil society).
                          M. Pacana

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Varqm View Post
                            This has been debated before, but if he was so detailed why not mention Sarah Lewis.
                            That's easy, Varqm. Or, at least, that's it for me. If his appearance at the police station was prompted by Sarah Lewis's testimony, he wouldn't want to immediately get the police on that track. He would want to come across as an independent and helpful witness. So no mention of Lewis.

                            All the best,
                            Frank
                            "You can rob me, you can starve me and you can beat me and you can kill me. Just don't bore me."
                            Clint Eastwood as Gunny in "Heartbreak Ridge"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by FrankO View Post
                              That's easy, Varqm. Or, at least, that's it for me. If his appearance at the police station was prompted by Sarah Lewis's testimony, he wouldn't want to immediately get the police on that track. He would want to come across as an independent and helpful witness. So no mention of Lewis.

                              All the best,
                              Frank
                              Bingo. Very astute FrankO!
                              "Is all that we see or seem
                              but a dream within a dream?"

                              -Edgar Allan Poe


                              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                              -Frederick G. Abberline

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by FrankO View Post
                                That's easy, Varqm. Or, at least, that's it for me. If his appearance at the police station was prompted by Sarah Lewis's testimony, he wouldn't want to immediately get the police on that track. He would want to come across as an independent and helpful witness. So no mention of Lewis.

                                All the best,
                                Frank
                                And in what capacity would he seem not helpful and not independent for mentioning Lewis? Can you explain that to me?
                                I have always thought that a very weak explanation. If he wanted to put things beyond doubt, then he needed to mention Lewis, and he didnīt. So itīs a dead duck to me.

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