Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Rippercast: False Flag: Jack The Ripper with author Stephen Senise - by Varqm 23 minutes ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - by Graham 3 hours ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - by Herlock Sholmes 3 hours ago.
A6 Murders: scan of Hanratty statement re Rhyl alibi - by Spitfire 3 hours ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - by Herlock Sholmes 3 hours ago.
Bury, W.H.: "...but because you are going to hang me you will get nothing out of me..." - by Wyatt Earp 3 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
General Discussion: Do you think it will be solved? - (11 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - (5 posts)
Rippercast: False Flag: Jack The Ripper with author Stephen Senise - (4 posts)
Shades of Whitechapel: Dennis Nilsen - (4 posts)
Doctors and Coroners: Eddowes' gut cut - (4 posts)
Scene of the Crimes: Was Whitechapel really any worse than other areas of London? - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Carroll, Lewis

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 06-16-2009, 09:05 AM
Jane Welland Jane Welland is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here and There
Posts: 230
Default Hello Justin

In Oxford, you say? Oh well. Quelle Surprise-although, has absence ever stopped Prince Eddy? Hmm. You say you spent some time looking into Carroll-did you consider him a serious suspect at one time? I don't know much about him, other than the usual. Jane x
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-16-2009, 12:28 PM
Justin Justin is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 25
Default

My work on Carroll was not Ripper-related -- I was studying his (very beautiful) photography. I'd long before known the Ripper allegations to be absurd on their face, but still, doesn't hurt to put Carroll's rock-solid alibi on the record!

Incidentally, Carroll went up to Oxford in 1851 and spent the majority of his life there. He did a first in maths and a second in classics at Christ Church, where he later became a maths don. In 1881 he retired to write books, but he rarely left Oxford.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-16-2009, 12:58 PM
Jane Welland Jane Welland is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here and There
Posts: 230
Default Thanks Justin

For clarifying - studying his photographs sounds lovely, yes. I am vaguely aware of his interest in photography - I'm quite sure information is generally absorbed by osmosis at times!

As to anagrams - I love them, personally - there's a sense of mystery about them, I think, which is why they fit so well into mysterious affairs - secret codes and all that.

I think the problem with the reality of secret anagrams, as opposed to fictional or fanciful anagrams, is that they are too easily discovered and too easily misinterpreted. Trouble is - if a set of letters can make two meanings, chances are they can make three, four or five.

Not a great deal of good as a secret code, I imagine.

But jolly good for stories!

Jane x
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-17-2009, 02:12 AM
John Hacker John Hacker is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by prowling cat View Post
Gosh, what a lovely thought. It is a pity Dickens died in 1870, he'd have made a wonderful suspect, with his incredible knowledge of the East End.
I'm not a very knowledgeable ripperologist (yet) but I feel that Carroll has often been seen as odd, because of his relationship with the Liddell girls - that's another can of worms, no need to open it here.
Probably that sent people on to his scent as a probable Ripper candidate in the first place.
Cat
Carroll ended up as a suspect because a psychologist named Richard Wallace wrote a biography of him where he felt that Carroll was seriosly disturbed. (The Agony of Lewis Carroll) Then he decided that since Carroll was obviously an insane pervert who loved anagrams, so he delved deeply into his OWN psyche and found anagrams that he felt showed Carroll was the Ripper. He then wrote a fun little piece of lunacy called "Jack the Ripper:
Lighthearted Friend".

He "found" anagrams like this:

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.


Which becomes:

Bet I beat my glands til,
With hand-sword I slay the evil gender.
A slimey theme; borrow gloves,
And masturbate the hog more!


Of course you can rearrange letters to make pretty much anything you want as some college students showed when they took the opening paragraph of a Wallce article:

This is my story of Jack the Ripper, the man behind Britain's worst unsolved murders. It is a story that points to the unlikeliest of suspects: a man who wrote children's stories. That man is Charles Dodgson, better known as Lewis Carroll, author of such beloved books as Alice in Wonderland.

And "found":

The truth is this: I, Richard Wallace, stabbed and killed a muted Nicole Brown in cold blood, severing her throat with my trusty shiv's strokes. I set up Orenthal James Simpson, who is utterly innocent of this murder. P.S. I also wrote Shakespeare's sonnets, and a lot of Francis Bacon's works too.

Which is a much better anagram IMO. And I think it really illustrates one of the fundamental truths of suspect based Ripperology... you can always find what you look for.. no matter how non-sensical. (Another excellent illustration of this point is Trow's "The Way to Hell")

See http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...ack-the-ripper for more.

Last edited by John Hacker : 06-17-2009 at 02:17 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-17-2009, 11:59 PM
prowling cat prowling cat is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ferrara & Bologna Italy
Posts: 34
Thumbs up oh, it was anagrams as clues. Do crosswords also count?

Obviously jumped a step, sorry, John, I remembered an article on his presumed obsession in photographing rather undressed young girls, and as you say, imagined that somebody, deciding he was a pervert, decided he was JtR! Thanks for giving me the details to fill in my sketchy surmise on how he was chosen. I hope I didn't give the impression I thought him a likely suspect, though.
Will read the names of crossword writers with new suspicion from now on
Buone notte
Cat
__________________
A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal. (O Wilde)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-18-2009, 02:13 AM
John Hacker John Hacker is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by prowling cat View Post
I hope I didn't give the impression I thought him a likely suspect, though.
I never thought it for a moment.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-18-2009, 04:18 AM
Dorian Gray Dorian Gray is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 37
Default

Humphrey Carpenter's book, Secret Gardens, examined several authors of children's books, including Carroll. The authors were certainly an odd lot. I'm not sure if it's still in print, but it was a good read.

Regards,

Dorian
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-18-2009, 12:22 PM
prowling cat prowling cat is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ferrara & Bologna Italy
Posts: 34
Lightbulb Carpenter's book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian Gray View Post
Humphrey Carpenter's book, Secret Gardens, examined several authors of children's books, including Carroll. The authors were certainly an odd lot. I'm not sure if it's still in print, but it was a good read.

Regards,

Dorian
Hello Dorian, great... Just a sec, my tesi di dottorato (more or less PhD dissertation) was on G. A. Henty and others. Hope this doesn't make me as odd as them!
Did Carpenter's book examine the authors simply as JtR candidates, or did it discuss them as authors?
Thank you,
Cat
__________________
A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal. (O Wilde)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-18-2009, 02:39 PM
Dorian Gray Dorian Gray is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 37
Default

Cat,

Carpenter was a biographer and a critic. I doubt Carpenter mentioned JtR.

Though Carpenter ruthlessly hammers some of the authors to dust, one feels an undercurrent of revolt: brilliant minds riddled with a sinister, humourous grace.

I do hope my mention of the authors' peculiarities was not taken to heart, but we are discussing Carroll, and other children's authors, on a JtR forum.

Your Ph.D sounds fascinating.

Regards,

Dorian
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-18-2009, 03:46 PM
prowling cat prowling cat is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ferrara & Bologna Italy
Posts: 34
Default Carpenter's book

Not at all, Dorian, thanks for giving me these details, which were exactly what I was hoping to hear: I wanted literary criticism and biographical details... and look where I found them, on a JtR site.
Just goes to show, well, I don't know what it goes to show, but it certainly does!
Between me and you and JtR, - and any postsers/readers of the forum, - my PhD was BORING! But I got in touch with my male side. It was on Boys Literature (maleness, class, nationality). I just couldn't pretend I was PhDing on books I myself had read at the age of 10, could I?
__________________
A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal. (O Wilde)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.