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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Elizabeth Stride

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  #321  
Old 03-25-2017, 03:50 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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From the sickert thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Elamarna: Christer,

Firstly thanks for explaining on the other thread, your reasoning for 147 Cable Street, which as I suspected is not based any palpable evidence, just your reasoning that if Lechmere were the killer it is an obvious place.
Which is a fair conclusion once one takes that approach.

It is a VERY obvious place. As for palpable evidence between Lechmere and the Pinchin Street torso, you may like how a bloodied rag was found in the building works of St Philips church near the London hospital - a building site that lay along the route from Pinchin Street to Doveton Street. The rag was found the day after the torso was discovered.

So this is the second bloodied rag found at a spot along a route from a Ripper murder place/Torso dumping place to Doveton Street.

Like I always say - Charles never had much luck with the coincidences.


This Christer is where we really do part company.

"A bloodied rag" found along a route he may have taken from his home to Pinchin street, there were, as you are aware more than one possible route, just look at the maps of the time.

A bloodied Rag found a day later, no idea if human blood? No idea if dropped in the 24 hours before discovery? Any proof of provenance of any sort?

At least in the case of the Goulston street, we are reasonably sure it was part of Eddowes apron



This is not evidence which can be shown is related to the case, it is an interesting story but it is only that, and I fail to see how it can be viewed as "palpable evidence" to quote myself.


Steve
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  #322  
Old 03-25-2017, 08:38 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is online now
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Hmmmm.....bloody rag found near hospital.....not exactly compelling evidence. Any more info on this, Fish?

There was another bloody rag found closer in time and distance to the torso, so articles like that weren't unknown on the streets. Dr Phillips' assistant Percy Clarke says this in his statement;

"When returning from the mortuary to Leman St police station with Insp. Pinhorn we were called by some men to a piece of waste ground in Hooper Street; we there found near an opening at the bottom of the pailings a bloodstained petticoat, body of common make, such as would be worn by a woman of stoutest build. The blood was not very recent & appeared to be menstrual; from the manner too in which it had been folded I should think it had probably been used as a diaper."
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  #323  
Old 03-25-2017, 09:30 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is online now
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Joshua Rogan: Hmmmm.....bloody rag found near hospital.....not exactly compelling evidence.

Well, of course, hospitals are in the habit of dumping their bloodied rags in nearby church constructions, so you have a point...

Any more info on this, Fish?

It was in Rob Clacks essay on the Pinchin Street torso in Ripperologist some time ago.

I find it interesting since it was found in a direct line between the Pinchin Street railway arch and Doveton Street.
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  #324  
Old 03-25-2017, 09:33 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
From the sickert thread





This Christer is where we really do part company.

"A bloodied rag" found along a route he may have taken from his home to Pinchin street, there were, as you are aware more than one possible route, just look at the maps of the time.

A bloodied Rag found a day later, no idea if human blood? No idea if dropped in the 24 hours before discovery? Any proof of provenance of any sort?

At least in the case of the Goulston street, we are reasonably sure it was part of Eddowes apron



This is not evidence which can be shown is related to the case, it is an interesting story but it is only that, and I fail to see how it can be viewed as "palpable evidence" to quote myself.


Steve
It is a straw in the wind - but an interesting straw. How palpable it is will be up to each and everyone to decide for themselves.

And in the Goulston Street business, we are not "reasonably sure" that the rag was part of Eddowes apron - we are certain of it. You need to dare to make that leap every now and then...

Last edited by Fisherman : 03-25-2017 at 09:35 AM.
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  #325  
Old 03-25-2017, 10:12 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post

I find it interesting since it was found in a direct line between the Pinchin Street railway arch and Doveton Street.[/b]
That while of course true, is not the full picture.

The rag is found on one of many possible routes to Lechmere's home, and it has to be said this route via the church is not the most direct route he may have taken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
It is a straw in the wind - but an interesting straw. How palpable it is will be up to each and everyone to decide for themselves.
Agreed in the end its what individuals see and decide on, not our views.

However to me its just a bit of bloodied rag, with nothing to suggest it is connected to the Pinchin street case; its more like "grasping for straws" than "a straw in the wind".





Steve

Last edited by Elamarna : 03-25-2017 at 10:27 AM.
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  #326  
Old 03-25-2017, 10:23 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post

And in the Goulston Street business, we are not "reasonably sure" that the rag was part of Eddowes apron - we are certain of it. You need to dare to make that leap every now and then...
Yes Christer you are right, not sure why I was not stronger there, given that I have argued for the actual type of apron, and what the bit of it was found in Goulston Street in the past.



Steve
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  #327  
Old 03-25-2017, 12:15 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
That while of course true, is not the full picture.

The rag is found on one of many possible routes to Lechmere's home, and it has to be said this route via the church is not the most direct route he may have taken.


Agreed in the end its what individuals see and decide on, not our views.

However to me its just a bit of bloodied rag, with nothing to suggest it is connected to the Pinchin street case; its more like "grasping for straws" than "a straw in the wind".

Steve
It IS "just" a piece of bloodied rag, and it cannot be tied to the torso deed. But it does not hurt the Lechmere bid that a bloodied rag was found in a straight line between Pinchin Street and Doveton Street the day after the torso was found.
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