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  #11  
Old 07-11-2016, 05:48 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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You may well be right Miss M. It seems he did have a decent funeral.

I was looking at a funeral invoice from 1920 earlier. The cost of the funeral was approx 9., the cost of the interment approx 5.

The Youngest surviving Lechmere child would have been around 35 at the time, so Charles's widow didn't have any direct dependants. For around a fiver she could have secured a plot for herself and her husband to lie together. 5 out of 260. She was obviously not a very sentimental woman.
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  #12  
Old 07-11-2016, 05:56 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss marple View Post
I want to clear up a few misconceptions as to why to Lechmeres were buried in different parts of Bow Cemetery.
Charles Letchmere died in 1920, he had been living at Rounton Rd Bromley He is buried in a common grave at Tower Hamlets [ Bow] Cemetery because the family could not afford a private grave. Funeral money would be spent on the hearse, the horses the coffin. Eastenders liked to make a show of the funeral. His wife Elizabeth died in 1940 age nearly 90. She had been living at the Central Home Leytonstone,a former workhouse which had been taken over by the council in 1936 for the aged and infirm. She is buried in a common grave. She died in The Blitz, the sustained bombing campaigne against London that started on Sept 7th 1940. It was not possible to bury her in the same common grave as her husband, as he had died twenty years earlier and they were not marked. The cemetery was bombed also during the war.
In 1943 was the Bethnal Green tube disaster in which 173 people died, the most cilvilian deaths in one incident. The underground stations were being used as bomb shelters. On the night of 3d March, at 8.22 the sirens went off. The entrance to Bethnal Green Station was small 10/12 and lit by a 25watt bulb. It had been raining and the steps were slippery. Hundreds of people crowded into the entrance, someone slipped and they all went down like dominos crushed to death. 27 men 84 women, 62 children and 62 injured.
Among the dead were the son of Charles Allen Lechmere, Thomas Allen Lechmere 66, his wife Florence 66, their son, Thomas Charles, 43. Thomas wife, May survived with a few bruises.
Thomas Charles Lechmere was awarded a George Cross [ bravery by cilvilians] forth class i think for trying to save others during the disaster.
Churchill did not allow it to be reported as he thought it would be bad for moral and hand a propaganda tool to the nazis.

Miss Marple
Hi Miss Marple.

Very interesting, but what are the sources for this?

Regards, Pierre
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  #13  
Old 07-11-2016, 06:03 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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miss marple: Thank you for that Mr Barnett. It is very interesting, I had just been speculating about how he got his medal [ something Fisherman does all the time]

Yes, miss Marple, that is correct. That, by the way, is why the Lechmere bid is referred to as a theory. A theory is basically a suggestion, based to a smaller or lesser extent on the facts.

Thomas was obviously a very brave man, someone who gets involved rather than standing by, just like his grandfather.

This is an example of how a speculation can be poorly based on the facts. It has been suggested that Lechmere was afraid of the gangs, he has been pointed out as heartless to leave Nichols in the street etcetera, so the bravoury may be quite questionable in his case. But speculate away, by all means - I do!

The two hundred odd pounds left by Charles is an Ok sum but they had several children and grandchildren and Charles was the breadwinner for her. Im sure she would not throw money away on a private grave.

So you are sure this time? You are NOT speculating? It is a fact that Elizabeth Lechmere would prefer to bury the man she lived with for fifty odd years in a paupers grave? Do you know her intimately enough to conclude this? Could there be other explanations?
And was that why money was spent on printed cards informing about the burial?

Last edited by Fisherman : 07-11-2016 at 06:31 AM.
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  #14  
Old 07-11-2016, 06:05 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post

The Youngest surviving Lechmere child would have been around 35 at the time, so Charles's widow didn't have any direct dependants. For around a fiver she could have secured a plot for herself and her husband to lie together. 5 out of 260. She was obviously not a very sentimental woman.
Indeed, Mr Barnett. Its either that, or...

Here I go, speculating again!
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  #15  
Old 07-11-2016, 06:30 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Indeed, Mr Barnett. Its either that, or...

Here I go, speculating again!
Fish,

Have you seen a copy of Lech's will. His wife was his sole executor, but did he leave all his money to her?

Gary
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  #16  
Old 07-11-2016, 06:42 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Fish,

Have you seen a copy of Lech's will. His wife was his sole executor, but did he leave all his money to her?

Gary
I have not seen a copy of the will, but I always assumed that he left his money to his wife. I believe I have seen it claimed on the boards too, but I cannot remember where and when - and by whom.

Last edited by Fisherman : 07-11-2016 at 06:47 AM.
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  #17  
Old 07-11-2016, 07:31 AM
miss marple miss marple is offline
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Mr Barnett, the cost of an internment is not the same as the price of a grave. A freehold double grave could cost anything up to hundreds depending on several factors. Where placed, brick lined or earth. Tower Hamlets was cheaper than some other cemeteries. I can find out the costs. An internment was the cost of the gravediggers doing the digging, not the price of a freehold grave, added to that are the funeral costs anything from 5 to fifty pounds. Added to that, a freehold grave needs a monument, which can run to a lot of money, even a simple stone.
As i have said before, the money is better spent on a good sendoff, a decent eastend funeral with a glass hearse, black horses, morning cards, than wasted on a private grave. Every funeral would have morning cards.[ I collect them], wheather the person was in a public grave or not, as long as there were people to morn them.

I am a London Cemetery tour guide, I have contacts in several cemeteries and know a lot about the history of graveyards. My contact at Tower Hamlets has made it quite clear that a couple who died twenty years apart buried in public graves would not be in the same grave. Public graves get full up.
There has been a lot of nonsense about this question what it is quite straightfoward. There is no mystery.


Miss Marple

Last edited by miss marple : 07-11-2016 at 07:52 AM.
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  #18  
Old 07-11-2016, 08:57 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss marple View Post
Mr Barnett, the cost of an internment is not the same as the price of a grave. A freehold double grave could cost anything up to hundreds depending on several factors. Where placed, brick lined or earth. Tower Hamlets was cheaper than some other cemeteries. I can find out the costs. An internment was the cost of the gravediggers doing the digging, not the price of a freehold grave, added to that are the funeral costs anything from 5 to fifty pounds. Added to that, a freehold grave needs a monument, which can run to a lot of money, even a simple stone.
As i have said before, the money is better spent on a good sendoff, a decent eastend funeral with a glass hearse, black horses, morning cards, than wasted on a private grave. Every funeral would have morning cards.[ I collect them], wheather the person was in a public grave or not, as long as there were people to morn them.

I am a London Cemetery tour guide, I have contacts in several cemeteries and know a lot about the history of graveyards. My contact at Tower Hamlets has made it quite clear that a couple who died twenty years apart buried in public graves would not be in the same grave. Public graves get full up.
There has been a lot of nonsense about this question what it is quite straightfoward. There is no mystery.


Miss Marple
Miss M,

Here's the invoice I was referring to. What do you think the charged for 'New Lain', 'interment' and 'title deeds' (total cost 4 28s 6d) relate to?

Gary


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  #19  
Old 07-11-2016, 09:01 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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By choosing not to have her husband buried in a private plot (which she could almost certainly have afforded ) Mrs Lechmere chose not to spend eternity with her old man. Whether that tells us anything about their relationship is a moot point.

Last edited by MrBarnett : 07-11-2016 at 09:21 AM.
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  #20  
Old 07-11-2016, 10:59 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Miss M,

Here's the invoice I was referring to. What do you think the charged for 'New Lain', 'interment' and 'title deeds' (total cost 4 28s 6d) relate to?

Gary


Attachment 17669
Just noticed my maths error. The total cost of burial was 4 18s and 6d (four quid eighteen bob and a tanner).
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