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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #381  
Old 05-01-2017, 12:54 PM
John G John G is online now
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[quote=Pierre;413502]
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Not for me, John.
By definition, it has to be speculative as it can't be based on knowledge.
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  #382  
Old 05-01-2017, 01:15 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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[quote=John G;413508]
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By definition, it has to be speculative as it can't be based on knowledge.
For you, yes.
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  #383  
Old 05-01-2017, 01:22 PM
John G John G is online now
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[quote=Pierre;413511]
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For you, yes.
I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that you've no proof, which can only be in the nature of a confession, that you're willing to disclose.
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  #384  
Old 05-01-2017, 03:43 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Yes, but Chapman was murdered outside, i.e. not inside a multi-occupancy building with thin walls.
Only the partition was thin, and abutted onto the stairwell. Prater was at the other end of the house, pissed and asleep, with her door barricaded. The other residents were scattered throughout Miller's Court, most of them also asleep. The residents of 29 Hanbury were in the same building as Chapman and her killer passed through, and many were about to get up for work.
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You say the killer didn't wait around for ages. However, in your scenario he must have delayed until they reached Kelly's accommodation
Yes, and for a minute or two - that's all - inside.
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If the assailant didn't also undress that would surely have seemed very odd to Kelly.
Why?
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 05-01-2017 at 03:45 PM.
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  #385  
Old 05-01-2017, 05:35 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Hi Jon,

She was found in bed and wearing a nightdress which, as I noted earlier, indicates she'd retired for the night.
Hi John.
I don't think it does, what I think is that you are confusing our modern more luxurious tendencies to undress for bed in something light and comfortable, because our bedrooms are warm and cozy.
This was the East end John, the poor and destitute living in drafty hovels.

We have firsthand accounts from a couple of witnesses that they went to sleep fully dressed. These houses were cold and drafty, these poor women did not waste precious kindling on a fire unless it was to earn some money.
Kelly was dressed in her nightdress because she was entertaining. If she had been alone she would have gone to bed clothed, like the other women of her class.
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  #386  
Old 05-02-2017, 04:33 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Quote:
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If the assailant didn't also undress that would surely have seemed very odd to Kelly.

John, what's to say he didn't. Indeed have not some suggested that he may have undressed to prevent his clothes being covered in blood.

Not something I think myself, but a possibility.

Steve
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  #387  
Old 05-02-2017, 05:09 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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John, what's to say he didn't. Indeed have not some suggested that he may have undressed to prevent his clothes being covered in blood.

Not something I think myself, but a possibility.

Steve
I don't see any problem with the killer undressing as a real possibility, nor do I see any with Sams idea that she wasn't completely sleeping when the attack started. Someone arriving at 4am that is a "friend" of Marys and is granted entry is an intimate "friend".

Which is why in this case I believe people should be looking for the other Joe she was seeing, perhaps Issacs, or other liaison "friends" who, for whatever reason, wanted to punish Mary Kelly. To make her ugly to look at.
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  #388  
Old 05-02-2017, 06:24 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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[quote=John G;413512]
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I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that you've no proof, which can only be in the nature of a confession, that you're willing to disclose.
A confession isn´t enough for us to know who the Whitechapel murderer was.
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  #389  
Old 05-02-2017, 09:28 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Kelly was dressed in her nightdress because she was entertaining. If she had been alone she would have gone to bed clothed, like the other women of her class.
Thanks for that very interesting observation, Jon. Food for thought!
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  #390  
Old 05-02-2017, 11:26 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Thanks for that very interesting observation, Jon. Food for thought!
The fact that Mary had a room in her own name and lived primarily off the kindness of men and solicitation puts her in a class of her own Sam, few if any other street women had their own room, by themselves, in their name. Which allows for much greater privacy, hence, undressing for bed. Like the neatly piled clothing found in the room suggests.
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