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  #131  
Old 04-26-2017, 07:23 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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I was joking about, Romford, JR.
My point being that in half an hour she could have covered 2 miles, which places her well past Hanbury Street and Spitalfields Market.
If, as she says,she left her house just after 5am, then 5.15 she would be near Hanbury Street (chiming with Cadosche).

As Evans and Rumbelow argue, Mrs Long could be our best witness.
She saw Chapman at close quarters, and in daylight.
that's what ive often thought-she heard the 5:15 chime, or if not just misremembered. and I agree-shes one of the best witnesses, but as all things ripper- not a great witness in general.
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  #132  
Old 04-26-2017, 07:45 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
I was joking about, Romford, JR.
I thought you might have been, JG! Alas, it's not easy to tell someone's exact meaning from their written words.

Quote:
My point being that in half an hour she could have covered 2 miles, which places her well past Hanbury Street and Spitalfields Market.
If, as she says,she left her house just after 5am, then 5.15 she would be near Hanbury Street (chiming with Cadosche).
True enough. But without knowing her walking speed, route, itinerary or even starting point, we can't know for sure. Frustratingly.

Quote:
As Evans and Rumbelow argue, Mrs Long could be our best witness.
She saw Chapman at close quarters, and in daylight.
She certainly seemed definite.
"[Coroner] You are certain about the time? - Quite."
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  #133  
Old 04-26-2017, 08:21 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
I thought you might have been, JG! Alas, it's not easy to tell someone's exact meaning from their written words.
I work on the assumption that everyone thinks my posts are a joke ;-)

Quote:
True enough. But without knowing her walking speed, route, itinerary or even starting point, we can't know for sure. Frustratingly.
We can only speculate, and to be honest, I don`t think we`re even 100% on where Mrs Long was living at the time, as her address differs in the different sources.

Quote:
She certainly seemed definite.
"[Coroner] You are certain about the time? - Quite."
True, perhaps the Brewery clock was not on time.
It only takes it to be 10 mins out ....
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  #134  
Old 04-26-2017, 09:37 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
I work on the assumption that everyone thinks my posts are a joke ;-)
I shall bear that in mind for future posts.

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We can only speculate, and to be honest, I don`t think we`re even 100% on where Mrs Long was living at the time, as her address differs in the different sources.
Quite....I did start a thread some time ago hoping to establish exactly where she lived, but I don't think it led to anything definite.

Quote:
True, perhaps the Brewery clock was not on time.
It only takes it to be 10 mins out ....
So many variables to consider....
You'd think, with the licensing laws in place, a brewery would have wanted to be spot on with the time to avoid any chance of prosecution....although that would probably apply more to the pubs themselves rather than the supplier.
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  #135  
Old 05-01-2017, 02:22 PM
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SirJohnFalstaff SirJohnFalstaff is offline
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I believe Robert that there are extenuating circumstances here that very well could solve an important question, why was she there. Its not popular, but I believe its at least possible that Liz was there to clean up after the meeting. I think it may have been a gig for her.

She says she has been gainfully employed the past months cleaning "among the Jews", and here we have a Jewish Socialist club in need of cleaning. I don't see it as farfetched.
From what I read "cleaning among the Jews" meant doing chores for Jewish families who observed the sabbath. So it would give some work, but only once a week, in places like the Rothschild housing complex, or Wentworth Model Housing.
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  #136  
Old 05-02-2017, 08:01 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by SirJohnFalstaff View Post
From what I read "cleaning among the Jews" meant doing chores for Jewish families who observed the sabbath. So it would give some work, but only once a week, in places like the Rothschild housing complex, or Wentworth Model Housing.
I believe that that Saturday signaled the beginning of the high holidays that year, perhaps the club was planning a dinner to celebrate that and needed the club to be spruced up. We also know that she cleaned for the landlady that afternoon. So she was, as she claimed, actively cleaning for money leading up to that night.

I believe only Mrs Diemshitz and one other unnamed charwoman were at the club at the time of the murder, maybe they added another charwoman due to the large crowd expected...it was originally scheduled to have William Morris as the speaker and that caused some stir locally...and they also may have added security because of that. Maybe a hired goon got rejected and as Liz insulted him and tried to walk out the gates,

The manner in which she was killed would support that kind of altercation, so would the other evidence. A 2 second loss of self control.
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  #137  
Old 05-02-2017, 09:27 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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I believe only Mrs Diemshitz and one other unnamed charwoman
The un-surnamed Mila.
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  #138  
Old 05-02-2017, 09:34 AM
Paddy Paddy is offline
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Default Living in one of the yard houses

Milly Korwitz 23 General Servant Kalish (Could me Mila?)

Pat...
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  #139  
Old 05-02-2017, 09:47 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Milly Korwitz 23 General Servant Kalish (Could me Mila?)
Is "Kalish" her birthplace? If so, that's probably Kalisz (the town and/or district) in Poland, the germanicised form of which is "Kalisch", where many of the Kosminski clan originated.
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  #140  
Old 05-02-2017, 09:53 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Good spot Paddy!
Mila was described as "the servant at the club", so it certainly seems plausible that they were one and the same.
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