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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Thompson, Francis

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  #211  
Old 11-10-2016, 01:51 PM
Richard Patterson Richard Patterson is offline
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Karl,

The fact remains that many people back then and today see that the Whitechapel murders were committed by someone who necessarily had anatomical knowledge. That Thompson possessed several years in medical training, surely could not hurt the chances of him being a suspect, like everything else about Thompson.

Richard
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"Jack the Ripper, The Works of Francis Thompson"

http://www.francisjthompson.com/
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  #212  
Old 11-11-2016, 04:13 AM
Karl Karl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Patterson View Post
Karl,

The fact remains that many people back then and today see that the Whitechapel murders were committed by someone who necessarily had anatomical knowledge. That Thompson possessed several years in medical training, surely could not hurt the chances of him being a suspect, like everything else about Thompson.

Richard
The thing is, apart from the Eddowes kidney, nothing points to anatomical knowledge at all. And even in the Eddowes case, there is clear evidence of lack of surgical skill. Not everyone agrees that the "canonical five" were all committed by the same person, either. I personally don't - Elizabeth Stride, in particular, doesn't seem very Ripperish. But even if we stipulate that they were all victims of the same killer: anatomical knowledge/surgical skill is still hotly debated, and by no means established - so it can hardly be described as fact. And because it is still debated, you cannot use someone's surgical skill to boost their status as suspects any more than you can use someone's lack of surgical skill to boost their status as suspects.
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  #213  
Old 11-11-2016, 05:06 PM
Richard Patterson Richard Patterson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl View Post
The thing is, apart from the Eddowes kidney, nothing points to anatomical knowledge at all. And even in the Eddowes case, there is clear evidence of lack of surgical skill. Not everyone agrees that the "canonical five" were all committed by the same person, either. I personally don't - Elizabeth Stride, in particular, doesn't seem very Ripperish. But even if we stipulate that they were all victims of the same killer: anatomical knowledge/surgical skill is still hotly debated, and by no means established - so it can hardly be described as fact. And because it is still debated, you cannot use someone's surgical skill to boost their status as suspects any more than you can use someone's lack of surgical skill to boost their status as suspects.
Karl,

You are right that whether the murderer had anatomical knowledge or not is still hotly debated. The debate began with the first murder and still continues. When I wrote that people see that the murderer had anatomical knowledge, I should have qualified my statement by adding that not all people see this and that people also believe that the murderer had no medical skill. I do not think either of us will end the debate on if he did or did not in this thread. All I can say is that my suspect Francis Thompson did have considerable anatomical knowledge having studied for several years at a college that emphasized practical learning in dissection and what were then new techniques in organ removal. Did the Ripper have medical knowledge? I could provide a list as long as your arm from professionals and experts stretching back to 1888 that state that he did, as I am sure you could do the same showing that he did not.

Richard
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"Jack the Ripper, The Works of Francis Thompson"

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  #214  
Old 11-12-2016, 12:34 AM
Karl Karl is offline
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Yes, I suppose we may add a horse to the list of Ripper victims. We'll never set this matter to rest, no matter how firmly we believe one way or the other.
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  #215  
Old 07-04-2017, 12:27 PM
SuspectZero SuspectZero is offline
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Hello John.

Interesting question and on the face of it I saw a strong possibility. Thompson had a thing for names. Thompson’s sister was named Mary and so was his mother. The root of Thompson’s conflict with his doctor father was over his remarrying. After the death of Mary, the mother, Dr. Charles Thompson, became engaged to a woman named Anne. What I think is more than a coincidence is that almost all the victims shared the same names as with members of Thompson’s family. As you know two of the Ripper’s victims were named Mary, and another was called Ann. In the 1901 murder, the victim does too with, her name being Mary Ann Austin. Thompson’s sister, Mary, changed her name to Mother Austin, when she became, before this murder. Thompson, who had spent most of his post 1888 life in country monasteries, was living in London in 1901. Details of the 1901 murder are reminiscent of the Ripper, with the focus on mutilation of the reproductive organs. In addition, Thompson’s relationship with his prostitute lover ended when she fled him at the start of June, and the murder of Mary Ann Austin occurred on June 1st.

Despite these things, I am not convinced Thompson killed Mary Ann Austin. The perpetrator slept with the victim. I know that Thompson had a sexual relationship with a prostitute in before 1888, but I think it would have been out of character for Thompson to sleep with an unknown. Also Thompson was living in London, but in Elgin Avenue, on the other side of the city. It still is interesting, that this 1901 murder might have been done by the Ripper, or Thompson, or both, if they are one and the same. I will look into it and find the exact circumstance of Thompson’s movements and mental state during the Austin murder, see if there are any correlations worth presenting.

Thanks for the interest.
I know I'm rather late to this discussion by a couple of years but Thompson's prostitute love was named Ann. That seems like a big coincidence to me.
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  #216  
Old 07-05-2017, 03:04 AM
Richard Patterson Richard Patterson is offline
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I know I'm rather late to this discussion by a couple of years but Thompson's prostitute love was named Ann. That seems like a big coincidence to me.
Thanks SuspectZero,

You are never too late to contribute to discussion.

It is an interesting point that you make, that Thompson's prostitute love was named Ann. However her name is a matter of convention rather than literal truth. Nobody has so far been able to determine this prostitute's actual name. Thompson kept that detail to himself, and her existence and past remains as mysterious as Mary Kelly's, the Ripper's November 9th 1888, victim.

The assigning of the name of Ann for Thompson's prostitute is derived from Thomas De' Quincey's prostitute. De'Quincey was a writer who died in 1859, the year of Thompson's birth. Thompson much admired De'Quincey and many circumstances of Thompson's life mirror his. (Both lived poor in London, were dependent on opium, wrote to the same genre and both had a brief relationship with a prostitute.)

Many authors have dubbed Thompson's prostitute Ann, because they have seen the parallels between Thompson and De'Quincey's life and since we know that De'Quincey fell for a prostitute named Ann, biographers on Thompson have applied the name, Ann, for Thompson's unknown prostitute.

Who knows SuspectZero. Thompson's prostitute may have also been called Ann, since Thompson was so keen to replicate De'Quincey's life, though I only speculate that this might be the case.

Thank you for your interest.

PS. Don't neglect examining my official website for my book, which holds a great deal of information on Thompson, my book, and the theory.

http://www.francisjthompson.com/
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