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Tumblety: The Hidden Truth

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  • #76
    Hi all,

    Excellent discussion, although Ally, you may be surprised that I disagree with your opinion that Tumblety was absolutely not Jack the Ripper, since I'm not convinced you have seen all the new evidence (even in The Ripper's Haunts). There is more (as Jonathan just found out a bit more). Norris' deposition had more than this, but it's not just Norris' deposition. Yes, it absolutely corroborates Tumblety as a misogynist, especially when you take into account the testimony of Frank Widner, the lawyer Riordan loved, Simpson, Judge Papin, etc. Their testimony was quite damning.

    Keep in mind, this man (Norris) was sworn under oath and he had an excellent reputation with the police. Norris was intimately close to this man each Mardis Gras before 1888 and after. Of course, he would remember this, especially when he saw his knives and heard Dr. T say all night walkers should be disemboweled. It was significant enough for him to approach the chief of police! He even said he tried to avoid Tumblety, but Tumblety did indeed hound a young man who he favored.

    This material deserves to be ripped apart by everyone (including people who hate my guts) and I promise it will come out. I just can't do it now.

    Ripper peer review is awesome.

    Sincerely,

    Mike
    The Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
    http://www.michaelLhawley.com

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by mklhawley View Post
      Hi all,

      Excellent discussion, although Ally, you may be surprised that I disagree with your opinion that Tumblety was absolutely not Jack the Ripper, since I'm not convinced you have seen all the new evidence (even in The Ripper's Haunts). There is more (as Jonathan just found out a bit more). Norris' deposition had more than this, but it's not just Norris' deposition. Yes, it absolutely corroborates Tumblety as a misogynist, especially when you take into account the testimony of Frank Widner, the lawyer Riordan loved, Simpson, Judge Papin, etc. Their testimony was quite damning.

      Keep in mind, this man (Norris) was sworn under oath and he had an excellent reputation with the police. Norris was intimately close to this man each Mardis Gras before 1888 and after. Of course, he would remember this, especially when he saw his knives and heard Dr. T say all night walkers should be disemboweled. It was significant enough for him to approach the chief of police! He even said he tried to avoid Tumblety, but Tumblety did indeed hound a young man who he favored.

      This material deserves to be ripped apart by everyone (including people who hate my guts) and I promise it will come out. I just can't do it now.

      Ripper peer review is awesome.

      Sincerely,

      Mike

      Will this stuff be in the next book, Mike?
      G U T

      There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

      Comment


      • #78
        Yes, and actually, I had so much before the St. Louis stuff, I had already planned on writing it. I'm sending one Down Under!

        Mike
        The Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
        http://www.michaelLhawley.com

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by mklhawley View Post
          Yes, and actually, I had so much before the St. Louis stuff, I had already planned on writing it. I'm sending one Down Under!

          Mike
          Great.

          You have found some great stuff, on one crazy bloke. Just hope there isn't a photo of that sidekick of yours a darn ugly fellow if you ask me.
          G U T

          There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

          Comment


          • #80
            [QUOTE=mklhawley;415056]
            Hi all,
            more than this, but it's not just Norris' deposition. Yes, it absolutely corroborates Tumblety as a misogynist, especially when you take into account the testimony of Frank Widner, the lawyer Riordan loved, Simpson, Judge Papin, etc. Their testimony was quite damning.
            I don't dispute Tumblety was a misogynist. That doesn't make him Jack the Ripper. There is a huge difference between a man who hides his face when a woman comes in the room (my there's a guy with guts) and a guy who actually kills people.

            \
            Of course, he would remember this, especially when he saw his knives and heard Dr. T say all night walkers should be disemboweled. It was significant enough for him to approach the chief of police! He even said he tried to avoid Tumblety, but Tumblety did indeed hound a young man who he favored.
            I don't dispute Tumblety had knives. That doesn't make him Jack the Ripper. I have knives. Several dozen people I know have knives. Tumblety saying he thought all prostitutes should be disemboweled is again, evidence of literally nothing. He was in London during the murders. He was well aware of the crimes. Being a misogynist it was probably fairly natural for him to say that he thought all prostitutes should be disemboweled as it probably seemed fitting to him. That doesn't make him Jack the Ripper. It makes him a butthead. Not Jack the Ripper. Hounding a young man he favored doesn't make him Jack the Ripper. Even the young man doesn't claim he did anything forceful or actually violent against him (other than that ludicrous bit of theater to explain how he saw the penis, which I find absurd. Like what Tumblety had to unzip Norris pants and stroke his naked penis for several minutes before it dawned on Norris what was going on? Give me a break.)

            Let all Oz be agreed;
            I need a better class of flying monkeys.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by GUT View Post
              Great.

              You have found some great stuff, on one crazy bloke. Just hope there isn't a photo of that sidekick of yours a darn ugly fellow if you ask me.
              Oh how right you are.....scary thing is....you should see his Aussie Twin...woof now that is scary looking ��

              Steadmund Brand
              "The truth is what is, and what should be is a fantasy. A terrible, terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago."- Lenny Bruce

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Steadmund Brand View Post
                Oh how right you are.....scary thing is....you should see his Aussie Twin...woof now that is scary looking ��

                Steadmund Brand
                G U T

                There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re the rambling nature of Norris's testimony : is it possible that some of it was in answer to questions which aren't indicated in the text?

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Robert View Post
                    Re the rambling nature of Norris's testimony : is it possible that some of it was in answer to questions which aren't indicated in the text?
                    That is exactly what I first thought when we discovered this....I even asked Mike, but after reading more of these documents it appears he is just rambling....i still think it's"possible" the questions are removed but not likely....the conclusion I came to is it was just a very nervous Norris, especially since his "homosexual" life was being exposed (however I believe he was more a, for lack of a better term, "hustler" who engaged in homosexual acts..but was heterosexual)....he always justifies his "relationship" by talking about all the money Tumblety spent on him....as if that shows he wasn't in it for "companionship"
                    again these are just my thoughts....as we will never know for sure....

                    Steadmund Brand
                    "The truth is what is, and what should be is a fantasy. A terrible, terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago."- Lenny Bruce

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      I don't think there are any questions missing. It's the textbook definition of "spilling the beans". Immediately after giving the dates of the first incidents with Tumblety the questioning attorney says "Go on". There is an objection, which is over ruled, and the judge says "Q: Go on, and narrate what you were saying just now?" So neither the attorney for the contesting family members nor the judge seemed to mind his manner of answering this first question. As the deposition moves along it does fall into a chronological pattern of his encounters with Tumblety and there are more questions posed to help keep Norris on track, and Norris appears to calm down. So I agree with Brian that the way the first answer is long and rambling with no interruption from attorneys can be put down to Norris' nerves, and possibly the defense counsel caught off guard.

                      JM

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Thanks Stead.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Thanks JM.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Micro-penis.

                            Learned a new word today
                            "Is all that we see or seem
                            but a dream within a dream?"

                            -Edgar Allan Poe


                            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                            -Frederick G. Abberline

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              [QUOTE=Ally;415070]
                              Originally posted by mklhawley View Post

                              I don't dispute Tumblety was a misogynist. That doesn't make him Jack the Ripper.

                              I don't dispute Tumblety had knives. That doesn't make him Jack the Ripper.
                              I don't dispute Anderson and Swanson believed a polish Jew was the killer. That doesn't make him Jack the Ripper.

                              I don't dispute Mac believed it was Druitt. That doesn't make him Jack the Ripper.

                              I don't dispute Abberline... That doesn't make him Jack the Ripper.

                              I don't dispute Littlechild... That doesn't make him Jack the Ripper.

                              I don't dispute the suspects who saw the victims with suspicious characters. That doesn't make them Jack the Ripper.

                              I think I agree with you Ally.

                              Sincerely,

                              Mike
                              The Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
                              http://www.michaelLhawley.com

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                                Micro-penis.

                                Learned a new word today
                                Yea...sounds like a slam, or mock...but that is the term used for that (possibly what Tumblety had) condition.
                                .Ally seems convinced that is what it is...and that was my take on it as well...in fact when we first discovered it I said....sounds more like mico penis than hermaphrodite.....but the term hermaphrodite comes up more than once...so who knows....but the description fits (no pun intended) the condition of mico penis

                                Steadmund Brand
                                "The truth is what is, and what should be is a fantasy. A terrible, terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago."- Lenny Bruce

                                Comment

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