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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Fleming, Joseph

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  #1  
Old 01-23-2009, 06:41 PM
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Chris Scott Chris Scott is offline
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Default Asylum Records for Joseph Fleming / James Evans

"Four years after the Whitechapel murders, in 1892, Joseph Fleming was admitted to the Stone Asylum, the City of London asylum near Dartford, Kent. Some two and a half years later, in February 1895, he was transferred to Claybury Hospital at Woodford Bridge in Essex. He was still at Claybury when he died on 28 August 1920."

I am about to embark on trying to get access to any surviving asylum records for Evans/Fleming
For the period when he was at the Stone Asylum, Dartford, patient records are held by the Corporation of London Records Office.
The records for Claybury Asylum are held by the London Metropolitan Archive, I was initally told, although another source says that the patient records for 1895 to 1896 are held at the Wellcome Library. However, I have contacted the Wellcome today and they hold only a small group of case notes of a Dr Faulkner for those two years, and advise that the general patient records are not with them. It seems that the LMA do not hold the records either. The most likely location is at the Redbridge Records Office. I have spoken to a researcher there today and she advised that hospital and asylum records are subject to 100 year closure and, also, it may only be possible for a person with a documented family link to consult the patient records of an individual, so there may be complications. I am currently in contact with the Records Office at Ilford to see what the position is. Under the hundred year rule it MAY be possible to consult the records of a patient up to 1909 (100 years ago) or another interpretation may be that any patient whose stay at an asylum comes, even partly, within the 100 year rule will have their records closed to access.
I am waiting for an interpretation of this to see if any access is possible.

The only reason I have described this at some length is that I do not want to
1) Duplicate the efforts of other researchers or
2) "steal the thunder" of any researcher who has already accessed this material and is intending to publish it
In the latter case if you contact me either by private message or e-mail then I will hold back as someone is already pursuing this issue.

Last edited by Chris Scott : 01-23-2009 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:54 PM
Ben Ben is offline
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I wish you the very best of luck in your research endeavours, Chris!

I've only hit brick walls in my efforts to access any patient records for Claybury Asylum, and I sincerely hope you have more success. For what it's worth, I received the following reply from Redbridge Central Library:

"I am sorry to tell you that we have no record of Mr Joseph Fleming, alias James Evans. Although we do hold such records as have survived, these are very few and random, and do not include the ones of interest to you."

Deflating stuff, but I hope not entirely conclusive.

All the best,
Ben
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:56 PM
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Chris Scott Chris Scott is offline
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Many thanks, Ben, for your message
Any info is helpful and your feedback is much appreciated
Chris
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:58 PM
Mike Covell Mike Covell is offline
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Good luck with your efforts Chris, I know firsthand how much of a pain it is to spend months being thrown from pillar to post looking for certain files, but as time has progressed, and contacts have been made, the process is getting easier.

Fingers crossed, and if there is anything I can do, don't hesitate to get in touch.
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Regards Mike
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:05 PM
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Chris Scott Chris Scott is offline
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many thanks, Mike
Much appreciated
Chris
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:09 PM
Ben Ben is offline
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You're very welcome, Chris.

The only other promising lead I've come across is the great-granddaughter of Mary Ann Fleming who compiled a detailed family tree some years ago. I haven't had much luck in my efforts to establish contact with her, but I could send you the details if you want to have a bash, and you'll probably be able to make better sense of the genealogical material than I can!

Best regards,
Ben
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:17 PM
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Chris Scott Chris Scott is offline
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Hi Ben
I would be very grateful to have a look at the material you mention
I am also trying to trace any Flemings who may have stayed locally here in Ramsgate. Although Joseph's father, Richard, moved from Ramsgate to London before Joseph was born, his uncle, Alfred, stayed in the town until his death and raised a family here
Thanks again
Chris
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:24 PM
Chris Chris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
For the period when he was at the Stone Asylum, Dartford, patient records are held by the Corporation of London Records Office.
These records are now held by the LMA. Rob Clack checked them a few months ago for Kozminski/Abrahams entries, and he posted some details of the holdings here:
http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=1504
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:52 PM
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Chris Scott Chris Scott is offline
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Very useful info Chris
Many thanks
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:28 PM
Scott Nelson Scott Nelson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
"Four years after the Whitechapel murders, in 1892, Joseph Fleming was admitted to the Stone Asylum, the City of London asylum near Dartford, Kent. Some two and a half years later, in February 1895, he was transferred to Claybury Hospital at Woodford Bridge in Essex. He was still at Claybury when he died on 28 August 1920."
Interesting stuff, Chris.
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