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  #41  
Old 04-17-2017, 03:43 AM
Cogidubnus Cogidubnus is offline
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Don't be discouraged Steve...I for one want to see what emerges from this...

Dave
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  #42  
Old 04-17-2017, 03:49 AM
GUT GUT is offline
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Originally Posted by Cogidubnus View Post
Don't be discouraged Steve...I for one want to see what emerges from this...

Dave
Yep me too.
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  #43  
Old 04-17-2017, 04:11 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Don't be discouraged Steve...I for one want to see what emerges from this...

Dave
Thank you..

It's one of the problems with this type of research. It's never going to be highly exciting.

It certainly won't say who the killer was. And unlikely it can completely clear any suspect. However it may suggest some of the evidence used in discussions on Buck Row may not be as it is portrayed.

If nothing else it allows us to look at just what was possible.

Indeed it has already confirmed that the route from Dovton st to Bucks Row was possible in 7.07 minutes
Conversely it has I believe shown that the often repeated idea that Paul should have seen Lechmere earlier just does not stand up to scrutiny.

And if the beat I have used for Neil is correct it gives a very good idea where he was when Paul and Lechmere passed.

Gut just saw your post too, again thanks


Steve

Last edited by Elamarna : 04-17-2017 at 04:16 AM.
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  #44  
Old 04-17-2017, 05:11 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Thank you..

It's one of the problems with this type of research. It's never going to be highly exciting.

It certainly won't say who the killer was. And unlikely it can completely clear any suspect. However it may suggest some of the evidence used in discussions on Buck Row may not be as it is portrayed.

If nothing else it allows us to look at just what was possible.

Indeed it has already confirmed that the route from Dovton st to Bucks Row was possible in 7.07 minutes
Conversely it has I believe shown that the often repeated idea that Paul should have seen Lechmere earlier just does not stand up to scrutiny.

And if the beat I have used for Neil is correct it gives a very good idea where he was when Paul and Lechmere passed.

Gut just saw your post too, again thanks

Steve
Hi Steve,

Just a few questions if you donīt mind. Something that struck me.

Do you know if physicians could and did (for what purposes) measure "blood ooze" or "flow" in Victorian times - and if they could, how did they use the results?

Was there any forensic use of scientific knowledge about it?

Was it an important concept in the court room?

Best wishes, Pierre
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  #45  
Old 04-17-2017, 05:18 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Hi Steve,

Just a few questions if you donīt mind. Something that struck me.

Do you know if physicians could and did (for what purposes) measure "blood ooze" or "flow" in Victorian times - and if they could, how did they use the results?

Was there any forensic use of scientific knowledge about it?

Was it an important concept in the court room?

Best wishes, Pierre
Pierre

I honestly have no idea, not really my area.

One would I suppose need to measure flow from a wound over a set time, that would give volume lost, how one would do this I have no idea, nor how one would use it.
You need I hate to say it a medical or forensic historian,


Steve
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  #46  
Old 04-17-2017, 08:45 AM
John G John G is offline
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Originally Posted by Cogidubnus View Post
Don't be discouraged Steve...I for one want to see what emerges from this...

Dave
I agree. And I have nothing useful to add.
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  #47  
Old 04-17-2017, 08:54 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Pierre

I honestly have no idea, not really my area.

One would I suppose need to measure flow from a wound over a set time, that would give volume lost, how one would do this I have no idea, nor how one would use it.
You need I hate to say it a medical or forensic historian,


Steve
Percy Clarke, assistant to Dr Phillips, gave this evidence at the Pinchin St Torso inquest;

"On moving the body I found that there was a little blood underneath where the neck had lain. It was small in quantity and not clotted. The blood had oozed from the cut surface of the neck whilst lying there"

This was about half an hour after the body was discovered, but up to 36 hours after death.
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  #48  
Old 04-17-2017, 09:39 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Percy Clarke, assistant to Dr Phillips, gave this evidence at the Pinchin St Torso inquest;

"On moving the body I found that there was a little blood underneath where the neck had lain. It was small in quantity and not clotted. The blood had oozed from the cut surface of the neck whilst lying there"

This was about half an hour after the body was discovered, but up to 36 hours after death.
Hi Joshua,

The head had been taken from the body (Pinchin torso) at a later time than the legs.

Donald Swanson states in a report to Supt. Arnold- the head which had been cut off by clean right handed cuts, the vertebrae being "jointed" left the neck with blood oozing from it, while both legs had also been "jointed", by right hand cuts, but the dismemberment had taken place at an earlier period than the head for the raw flesh had from continued exposure dried on the surface which presented a blackened appearance in consequence.


From this statement, the head could have been taken off immediately prior to the disposal or anytime between then and some time after the legs.
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  #49  
Old 04-17-2017, 09:47 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Hi Joshua,

The head had been taken from the body (Pinchin torso) at a later time than the legs.

Donald Swanson states in a report to Supt. Arnold- the head which had been cut off by clean right handed cuts, the vertebrae being "jointed" left the neck with blood oozing from it, while both legs had also been "jointed", by right hand cuts, but the dismemberment had taken place at an earlier period than the head for the raw flesh had from continued exposure dried on the surface which presented a blackened appearance in consequence.


From this statement, the head could have been taken off immediately prior to the disposal or anytime between then and some time after the legs.
Jerry and Joshua

This is a very useful example from the exact time.

Not sure what others make of it but I find it most illuminating.

Steve
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  #50  
Old 04-18-2017, 05:42 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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what,d you expect, steve, we pelted sd vicious with hamburgers at randy,s. punk is what it is...

isn,t there some rule against two similar threads existing in the same space and time? if i recall, you were the one who was alluding to an understanding of the term oozing.

my beef is this. i watched fishs documentary too. and in my bad memory, i think i recall cross holding a cane. now i dont know if it was nothing more than a status symbol but it got me thinking that we dont really know how lechmere walked... did he limp, hobble or swagger. the best i could see was the speed estimates could only determine how fast Paul walked to Mizen and (if it was determined to be a fast rate) maybe that would determine if Cross was fast enough to keep up.

as for the upcoming oozing research, what part was oozing out that wineglass worth of blood - her head or her body?
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