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  #81  
Old 04-21-2017, 06:35 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Hi Gareth

It was most certainly Lipski that was shouted by BS Man, as it was at that point that BS Man realised Schwartz, a Jewish looking guy, was watching him.
yup. as what abberline thought.
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  #82  
Old 04-21-2017, 06:37 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Hi CD

Church Pasage Man still went on to kill Eddowes after been seen by 3 men, and Annie Chapman`s killer still went on to kill Chapman despite Mrs Long witnessing him approaching a victim.
exactly. as long as the killer knew that the people who saw him were strangers and didn't know him.
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #83  
Old 04-21-2017, 06:37 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Church Pasage Man still went on to kill Eddowes after been seen by 3 men, and Annie Chapman`s killer still went on to kill Chapman despite Mrs Long witnessing him approaching a victim.
The difference is that, with both Chapman and Eddowes, the victims appeared to have been transacting with the alleged killer in a relaxed manner. Indeed, in Eddowes' case, they were practically lovey-dovey.
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  #84  
Old 04-21-2017, 06:42 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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It was most certainly Lipski that was shouted by BS Man, as it was at that point that BS Man realised Schwartz, a Jewish looking guy, was watching him.
Indeed, Jon, although it's always bugged me that it was apparently only "Lipski!" that was shouted, as opposed to "Bugger off, Lipski!", "Mind your own business, Lipski!" or "Wot you lookin' at, Lipski?" (etc). Shouting the name "Lipski!" on its own just seems inadequate, and seems to have been perceived as such from the get-go, with various investigators attempting to fill in the blanks and/or explaining what BS might have meant - the contemporary police suggestion of "I'm going to Lipski you" (or whatever it was) being a prime example.

Of course, this could be another example of our being let down by inadequate source evidence, but I would observe that, with "Lizzie!", the problem disappears.
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 04-21-2017 at 06:49 AM.
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  #85  
Old 04-21-2017, 06:55 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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The difference is that, with both Chapman and Eddowes, the victims appeared to have been transacting with the alleged killer in a relaxed manner. Indeed, in Eddowes' case, they were practically lovey-dovey.
Indeed Sam, but in the cases of Chapman and Eddowes, the man is aware he is being observed.
When he was throwing Stride about, he didn't know anyone was watching him.
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  #86  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:02 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Indeed, Jon, although it's always bugged me that it was apparently only "Lipski!" that was shouted, as opposed to "Bugger off, Lipski!", "Mind your own business, Lipski!" or "Wot you lookin' at, Lipski?" (etc). Shouting the name "Lipski!" on its own just seems inadequate, and seems to have been perceived as such from the get-go, with various investigators attempting to fill in the blanks and/or explaining what BS might have meant - the contemporary police suggestion of "I'm going to Lipski you" (or whatever it was) being a prime example.

Of course, this could be another example of our being let down by inadequate source evidence, but I would observe that, with "Lizzie!", the problem disappears.
Lipski could be perceived as an insult or threat in itself, so perhaps that was all was needed.
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  #87  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:07 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
exactly. as long as the killer knew that the people who saw him were strangers and didn't know him.
Yes, and perhaps someone who was confident that he wouldn`t be seen, identified or pointed out by these witnesses at a later date.
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  #88  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:10 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Indeed, Jon, although it's always bugged me that it was apparently only "Lipski!" that was shouted, as opposed to "Bugger off, Lipski!", "Mind your own business, Lipski!" or "Wot you lookin' at, Lipski?" (etc). Shouting the name "Lipski!" on its own just seems inadequate, and seems to have been perceived as such from the get-go, with various investigators attempting to fill in the blanks and/or explaining what BS might have meant - the contemporary police suggestion of "I'm going to Lipski you" (or whatever it was) being a prime example.

Of course, this could be another example of our being let down by inadequate source evidence, but I would observe that, with "Lizzie!", the problem disappears.
not really. in your scenario you would think he would also say something like-your coming home with me, what whoring again?, you cheating cow, Ill teach you a lesson etc
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #89  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:13 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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True, CD, but Schwarz's evidence comes to us reflected through different prisms which, even at first hand, evidently needed an interpreter. The potential for confusion is rather high, so what Schwarz seemed to have said, and what he actually said, cannot be ascertained precisely.

Having said that, I'm not too hung up on the "Lizzie!" idea, interesting though it is. Even without it, what Schwarz reports has all the flavour of a violent quarrel between two (possibly acquainted) parties, as opposed to anything more exotic.
right so how does that exclude BS man as her killer and or the ripper?
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #90  
Old 04-21-2017, 08:55 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Nor does the B.S. man killing her after being seen by Schwartz and the Pipe Man fit the scenario.

c.d.
Exactly. That's why I doubt there even was a "BS Man" in the first place.
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