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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Police Officials and Procedures > Neil, P.C. John

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  #11  
Old 10-11-2017, 09:51 AM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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Few more details about his service, I've been able to uncover.........

He joined 26th July 1875 and was posted to X Division.

27.07.1895 146J posted to L Division as 181L.

10.08.1895 181L posted back to J Division as 198J.

23.04.1897 Pensioned as 97J (so it would appear that he went back to the 97J number, at some point between 1895 and 1897. Perhaps as a mark or respect to his Ripper days?).

I've still got a few more avenues to explore. But I think at this point I can confirm with a level of certainty that he didn't serve out his entire career in J Division as has previously been documented in Ripper lore.
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  #12  
Old 10-11-2017, 10:01 AM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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26th July 1875..................
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  #13  
Old 10-11-2017, 11:29 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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PC John Neil, 539 K, was transferred from K Division to J Division, to become 97 J, on the date of creation of J Division (2 August 1886) under Police Orders dated 28 July 1886.

He was one of around 500 constables transferred to J Division that day (not including CID constables, sergeants and higher ranks).

Also transferred from K Division that same day, according to Police Orders, was one John Thaim (sic) from K 179 to J 96.
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  #14  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:55 AM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
PC John Neil, 539 K, was transferred from K Division to J Division, to become 97 J, on the date of creation of J Division (2 August 1886) under Police Orders dated 28 July 1886.

He was one of around 500 constables transferred to J Division that day (not including CID constables, sergeants and higher ranks).

Also transferred from K Division that same day, according to Police Orders, was one John Thaim (sic) from K 179 to J 96.

Thanks David, that's very interesting!!

I'm told that his pension papers are now on Ancestry?
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  #15  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:00 PM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
PC John Neil, 539 K, was transferred from K Division to J Division, to become 97 J, on the date of creation of J Division (2 August 1886) under Police Orders dated 28 July 1886.

He was one of around 500 constables transferred to J Division that day (not including CID constables, sergeants and higher ranks).

Also transferred from K Division that same day, according to Police Orders, was one John Thaim (sic) from K 179 to J 96.

This is interesting, two Old Bailey case which involved Buck's Row when it was covered by K Division (1880 & 1883), the second case involves a policeman named only as THICK

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...Buck#highlight

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...Buck#highlight
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  #16  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:13 PM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Station Cat View Post
This is interesting, two Old Bailey case which involved Buck's Row when it was covered by K Division (1880 & 1883), the second case involves a policeman named only as THICK

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...Buck#highlight

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...Buck#highlight
Also of note in the first case (1880) is the occupant of 1 Buck's Row ADA PURKISS, related to WALTER PURKISS of later Ripper fame perhaps?
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  #17  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:24 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is online now
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Good finds!
I wonder if the Walter Purkiss who was burgled is the same one living further up Buck's Row at Essex Wharf in 1888?

Edit: I see you had the same thought!
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  #18  
Old 10-19-2017, 11:15 AM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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Originally Posted by The Station Cat View Post

I believe they worked 8 hour shifts in those days, so three rota's would have been required to cover the 24 hours. But exactly what those hours were I don't know.
I can't vouch for the 19th century but, for many years, the police did work the sort of rota system you describe (four shifts working a four week cycle with one shift on Rest Day - basically a week of mornings, a week of afternoons and a week of nights, separated by two days off)- it was still in force (just) when I started in Nottinghamshire in 1974. This created a difficulty, in that every officer was entitled to two days off every week - not possible when a total of 21 days had to be worked in every 28 days to provide the cover. Therefore one paid rest day was worked in every four weeks. The hours, when I started were 6am-2pm, 2pm-10pm & 10pm-6am.
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  #19  
Old 10-22-2017, 03:39 AM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Bridewell View Post
I can't vouch for the 19th century but, for many years, the police did work the sort of rota system you describe (four shifts working a four week cycle with one shift on Rest Day - basically a week of mornings, a week of afternoons and a week of nights, separated by two days off)- it was still in force (just) when I started in Nottinghamshire in 1974. This created a difficulty, in that every officer was entitled to two days off every week - not possible when a total of 21 days had to be worked in every 28 days to provide the cover. Therefore one paid rest day was worked in every four weeks. The hours, when I started were 6am-2pm, 2pm-10pm & 10pm-6am.

Thanks Bridewell, I imagine that they would have worked a similar shift pattern "back in the day". 3 rota's with one Sgt and perhaps as many as 8 bobbies (I assume). I also believe that they didn't have rest days then.

It's difficult to gauge how many bobbies would be on each rota (I'm basing my research on Bethnal Green station). On the 1891 census there is one Sgt and 12 bobbies living in the station (14 and two wives on the 1881 census). My research has confirmed at least another 5 possibly 6 constables living in married quarters and at least one other Sgt. But I suspect there must have been a few more.

There appears to have been 5 beats and one fixed point, there'd have been reserve bobbies as well, lets say 2. So there's our 8 bobbies and one Sgt. So there must have been at least 24 bobbies, 5 Sgt and at least one Insp. Permanently attached to this station (would be interesting to know whether any reinforcements were sent there during the Ripper's reign- I have not been able to identify any).

Last edited by The Station Cat : 10-22-2017 at 03:46 AM.
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