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  #11  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:18 AM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi David,

And you believe this story?

Oh well, chacun à son goût.

Regards,

Simon
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  #12  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:35 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Hi David,

And you believe this story?
Yes I certainly do Simon. Why do I believe it? Because it is fully documented within confidential Foreign Office files, where one finds extensive contemporary official internal correspondence, not for public consumption at the time, between the various people involved.

Now I fully appreciate that documentary evidence is not your cup of tea but I tend to find that this is the best way to understand what was happening in 1889.
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  #13  
Old 08-11-2017, 05:15 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi David,

Documentary evidence is most decidedly my cup of Earl Grey. I have acres of the stuff nestling on a cloud server.

But one thing I have learned is that in any given situation government ministers, civil servants and policemen more or less tell each other what they expect to hear in order to construct a credible official narrative.

The interesting Parnell and WM stuff remains unavailable, but luckily not everything has been redacted.

52983.

Regards,

Simon
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Last edited by Simon Wood : 08-11-2017 at 05:39 PM. Reason: spolling mistook
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  #14  
Old 08-11-2017, 05:31 PM
C. F. Leon C. F. Leon is offline
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Doesn't he look JUST like Charles Darwin in old age?
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  #15  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:04 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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Default 3 March 1889

La Correspondencia de Espana

It seems that the description of the man who committed suicide agree exactly with those of Pigott.
The corpse was removed to the judicial deposit at one o'clock in the morning without the hotel guests noticing.
The consul, the ambassador, the secretary of the embassy, and many residents of the English colony came at night to the hotel to find out what had happened, and also, with a desire to see the corpse, which could not be permitted. The proprietor of the hotel, Don Modesto Garcia de Alba, was authorized to do otherwise by the examining magistrate.
However, when the corpse was removed, the ambassador was able to see him, and it seems to me that he said: "After all, he was a man of honor! But it is better that he should have killed himself! "
The hotel owner and the interpreter who accompanied the guest were summoned again at twelve o'clock.
Everything else that the newspapers have published is pure fantasy.

La Monarquia
The Suicide of Pigott
According to all indications, the Englishman who committed suicide at the Hotel de Embajadores yesterday was Pigott, the counterfeiter of the letters published in The Times as being originally written by the head deputy of the Irish party, Mr. Parnell.
This statement has come after examination of the documents found in the bag owned by the man who committed suicide, and because the initials of the name that was presented at the hotel - Roland Ponsonby - are the same as those of the famous forger Richard Pigott.
One of the letters found in the portfolio has been translated and contains the following words:
Anderson Hotel ... Received 11 letters ... Parnell (mentioned several times) Richard Pigott .., M. Labouchere.
Pigott was a subject of the worst antecedents. He was a journalist in Ireland and sold his newspaper to the Irish League, becoming a secret agent of the Government and collecting money from the latter and the League itself. As he was in correspondence with Parnell, it was easy for him to create the falsified documents with all possible perfection, although committing misspellings. This circumstance has allowed for the clarification of the truth, already proclaimed by the confession of the forger.
It seems that Pigott had also been engaged in the sale of pornographic books and photographs.



El Imparcial
THE PIGOTT SUICIDE

The Identification
Two documents have been found on the corpse of the man who committed suicide at the Hotel de Embajadores by the magistrate judge proving that the dead man was Pigott.
One of these documents is a letter addressed to the English radical deputy Mr. Labouchere, an intimate friend of Parnell, and has the date: Monday. It says this more or less:
"The first bundle of letters I sold to the Times was all made up of authentic documents. But in the second bundle I included some fake letters. Among the latter were two from Mr. Parnell, one from Davitt, one from O'Kelly and one from Patrick Egan. I lament in the most preferred way to the evil that I have done, and with all my soul I desire to repair it. For this I am prepared to employ whatever means are within my reach, and submit myself to the instructions you give me. Most of what I have testified before the court was false. But what was affirmed under oath and in writing is exact. "
This letter is signed by Richard Pigott. The people alluded to in the letter - Davitt, O'Kelly and Patrick Egan - are Irish deputies of the autonomist party.
The other document found on the corpse, which also proves the identity of the dead, is a license to carry a revolver in the name of Richard Pigott, and issued in Dublin two years ago.
In view of these documents, there is no doubt that the man is Pigott,
Despite this, the body will not be buried until next Tuesday, awaiting the arrival of the English police in charge of fulfilling the final legal requirements of the recognition of the body. In the meantime, photographs of the man will be taken.
The English embassy has arranged for Pigott to be made a decorous burial. In the end, he was an English subject and his death has rescued his faults.

The exposition of the corpse
The body of Pigott has been transferred to the judicial deposit of the South.
He lies inside of an ordinary casket lined with black cotton cloth. The coffin is placed on a table. The man’s suit is made up of brown coat, jacket and black tricot vest, dark striped trousers and heavy boots. His clothes appeared worn and used. The vest is almost completely unbuttoned, and a small, greasy scapular appears between the opening of the chest, in which the letters I H S, the monogram of Jesus, are dominated by a cross.
The mouth and part of the mustache are filled with dried blood. On the hands and face, there are also blood stains. The eyes, clear blue and vivid, are open. The bullet must have been near the neck towards the right side.
In the same room are other corpses covered with canvas. All of them are people found injured or dead in the street and, before going to the warehouse, have passed through the dissection rooms.
The sight of that room is miserable, disgusting, and unseemly. What a difference between our morgue and the Morgue of Paris!

La Iberia
PIGOTT
It is not officially proven that the Englishman who committed suicide last night at the Hotel de Embajadores is Pigott, but all indications suggest that he is.
Among the documents that the judge collected is a letter to deputy Labouchere written by Pigott with his real signature; a license to use firearms, also in his name, issued in Dublin in 1887; a checkbook for the Bank of England, and several hotel accounts with the guest's name cut off. In addition, the description which the ambassador of England has received from his Government all agree with those of the Englishman.
He also has an exact resemblance to a portrait of Pigott published by the Il Secalo of Milan. Yesterday many Englishmen visited the Judicial Depot of the South, where the corpse is exposed.
Some who claimed to know the famous character testified that it was none other than the dead man.
Sir Clare Ford sent a telegram to London giving an account of the incident.
The English Government has replied that they sent a special delegate with photographs of Pigott for identification.
Yesterday Madrid received countless telegrams requesting news of the fact.
A good number of English illustrations of the room where Pigott killed himself were made.
The body will not be buried until the photographs arrive and the man is identified.
Judge Ocampo has formed an inventory of the effects, and will hand them over to the English ambassador and the testimonials of the event.

El Liberal
RICHARD PIGOTT

More Antecedents
Pigott was subject to such surveillance by the London police that, last Saturday, he complained to the inspector that they were following him everywhere. Pigott assured the inspector that he was in no danger and that protection was ridiculous; however, the police did not lose sight of the hotel where he was staying on Fleet Street.
On the same day, he complained that he was short of money, and he made many attempts to obtain it.
He could, however, procure what was necessary for the flight as follows: Some time ago he had left some books to be sold at Sotheby's bookstore on Wellington Street.
On Monday, at two o'clock in the afternoon, he showed up at the bookstore to ask for the money from the sale. One of the partners said that he could not pay him at this time. Pigott returned at four that same afternoon, and obtained a check for 25 pounds and 15 shillings on the Bank of Messrs. Prescott. Shortly thereafter he was last seen on Fleet Street.
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  #16  
Old 08-12-2017, 01:22 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Hi David,

Documentary evidence is most decidedly my cup of Earl Grey. I have acres of the stuff nestling on a cloud server.
Strange then that you don't use very much of it in your book, preferring to rely on a string of inaccurate newspaper reports and an overactive imagination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
But one thing I have learned is that in any given situation government ministers, civil servants and policemen more or less tell each other what they expect to hear in order to construct a credible official narrative.
I don't know where you learned that Simon but it seems to confirm what I said about you: documentary evidence is not your cup of tea. You prefer to ignore it when it doesn't fit in with your view of the world.

But if you were to use a little bit of common sense you would appreciate that there is no possibility that the internal correspondence in the confidential Foreign Office files relating to Pigott is untrue or an "attempt to construct a credible official narrative". The fact that you are unable to state why you think it is untrue or what really happened speaks volumes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
The interesting Parnell and WM stuff remains unavailable, but luckily not everything has been redacted.

52983.
Are you back to talking in riddles? Previously you said "Three" as if that had meaning, now you say "52983", what do you mean?
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  #17  
Old 08-13-2017, 08:21 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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Default 4 March 1889

El Imparcial
The origin of the letters
(From our private correspondent in London)
London 3 (11.10 night)
It is said that a celebrated Fenian who now resides in Paris is apt to indicate the source from which Pigott obtained the first bundle of fake letters sold to The Times. -C.

La Iberia
PIGOTT IN PARIS
Le Matin published some details about Pigott's stay in the capital of the neighboring republic.
Pigott left London on Monday evening on the express train, which departed from Charing-Cross at 8:05 and arrived at the station of Saint-Lazare, Paris, on Tuesday at six o'clock in the morning.
At a quarter to seven, a traveler, who later became known as Pigott, disembarked at the Ambus Mundos [Deux Mondes] hotel, located on Avenida de la Opera, no. 22, and asked for a room for a few hours, the time needed to wash, dress and write some letters.
Since the man had stated that he would not be spending the night, M. Voos, the hotel manager, did not feel it necessary to register the newcomer in the guest check-in.
Pigott lodged in room no. 21, located on the first floor.
The traveler was a man of about fifty-five to sixty years old, regular stature, broad shoulders, quite corpulent, and with a full white beard.
On top of his black suit he wore a sort of dark ulster, and covered his head with a dark brown beaver hat. He wore glasses.
His only luggage consisted of a leather suitcase with gold metal lock.
At nine o'clock, Pigott came down from his room to the manager's office, carrying several sheets of paper.
He asked M. Voos for another sheet of the hotel's letterhead and an envelope.
Standing and leaning on the balustrade of the office, he quickly wrote some lines on the provided letterhead, and placed it on the other written pages.
The set of paper was too bulky to fit into the rectangular envelope; so, Pigott begged the hotel manager to give him another envelope.
The traveler immediately requested M. Voos to weigh the letter and tell him how much the postage would cost.
The letter weighed 55 grams.
After putting it in the inner pocket of his pardesus, Pigott asked to be shown the dining room, and had lunch there.
He paid his bill and left quietly, carrying his suitcase.
It was then eleven o'clock.
Since then he has not been seen again, says Le Matin, and it is not known whether he is hiding in Paris or if he has immediately taken another train to go to a distant and unknown place, wishing to put as much distance as possible between himself and the English detectives, who at this hour must be on his trail.
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  #18  
Old 08-13-2017, 08:22 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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Default 4 March 1889

EL Pais

Pigott's confession
Pigott did not want to die unconfessed.
Fleeing from London, he wrote an extensive letter to the President of the Commission responsible for collecting the facts relating to Parnell; a letter which was read on the 27th in a letter by Mr. [Cuaynghame] to the numerous public in attendance.
Here is the content of this important document:
"I, Richard Pigott, wish to make a statement to H. Labouchere and G A. Sala, in the former's house, of my own free will, without being induced by any offer of money.
"My object is to rectify what the Times has said, and also to give details of the circumstances surrounding the facsimile of letters from Mr Parnell, Mr, Egan, Mr Davitt and Mr O'Kelly, which appeared In the columns of the newspaper.
"The circumstances relating to the acquisition of the letters are not as I have stated, and as has been said above. I did not put myself in intelligence with anyone. I said to Houston (this Houston is the one who provided the letters to the Times), that I acquired them in Paris; but I must confess that I made them myself, using authentic letters from Mr. Parnell and Egan, tracing some words and phrases, and copying the letter character.
"I copied words and sentences using a candle, placing the authentic letters on top of a windowpane, and placing the paper on which I wrote [on top of the authentic letter]. These authentic letters of Mr. Parnell and Mr. Egan were four or five [in number], copies of which were read in court. After using these letters, I destroyed them.
“Some of the signatures I obtained using through this procedure; others I drew myself.
I then wrote to Houston, telling him to come to Paris to collect the documents. I told him that they were stored in a black leather satchel, along with some pieces of paper, account sheets and old newspapers.
"On his arrival I showed him the letters, account sheets and the scraps of paper. After a brief examination, he handed me a check from Cook's house for the agreed-upon price of 500 pounds; at the same time, he gave me 105 pounds in bank notes as a commission.
"The account sheets were nothing more than loose sheets of a book of mine, where the details of the investment of money of the Fenians were confided to me from time to time. Most of these accounts were written by David Murphy, my cashier.
“I do not remember what was written on the pieces to paper,
"The second bundle was written by me as well. Mr Parnell's signature was imitated from the facsimile published in The Times.
"I do not remember where the Egan letter, from which I copied the signature, was obtained. I had no copies of Mr Campbell's letters.
"I told Houston that this second set of letters was to be put up for sale in Paris, and had been received from America. He told me that he wanted to see them. I sent them; and after having held them for four or five days, I sent a check from the Cook house for 550 pounds, which exceeded the stipulated price.
"The third bundle was a letter imitated by me, from a penciled letter written by Mr. Davitt to me from prison; Another, also imitated by me, from a letter recently written by James O'Kelly, when he was collaborating on my newspaper; and the third, by Egan, I forged imitating his writing from a bill of exchange that had been issued by him. For these three letters, Mr Houston gave me these three 200 pound in bank notes.
"I said that I received 105 pounds for the first bundle; For the second, I received 50 and for the third, nothing.
"Houston and I agreed to hide our names.
"In October I learned that Mr. Houston mentioned my name to Mr. Macdonald (the Times director). This breaking of his word motivated a very sour correspondence.
"As far as my interviews with Mr. Parnell, Mr. Lewis, and Mr. Labouchere are concerned, I stand by what I said in my declarations given under oath.
"I believe that Mr Labouchere's offer of 1000 pounds was for the delivery of any documents of Mr. Egan or Mr. Parnell which I had in my possession,
"I told Mr. Labouchere that I had destroyed all the letters of Houston. This is not true, I still have some.
"I say that this statement is dictated by me to Mr. Labouchere in the presence of Mr. Sala. Signed; Richard Pigot; Witness, George A. Salas. February 23, 1889.”
This letter was heard with the greatest astonishment.
The next day the Times declared that [Pigott] had been opposed [mocked] in good faith.



{Public image courtesy of Yale University Art Gallery online}
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  #19  
Old 08-13-2017, 08:25 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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El Globo
Little we will say of the dead. Pigott has punished himself, and now the justice of men can take nothing more from him.
We publish his portrait, not in attention of a sinister notoriety, but because the English adventurer epitomizes the full-fledged combat of two races, as well as one of the greatest moral plagues of the nineteenth century
Pigott, who committed suicide in Madrid, was determined for the redemption of the noble land of Ireland, against which he had worked so much in the last years of his life, and has undoubtedly promoted in England a beneficial reaction to her sister island .
He has shown at the same time that after a disastrous existence, in which there had been no kind of scruples, there was something left to him, which, if not to be described as virtue, was at least a quality peculiar to men of heart and shame.
Even if he had committed suicide to avoid shame, even if he committed suicide for fear of losing his freedom and forced labor into old age, some consideration is deserved, since he has washed away some of his guilt.
A person of understanding and a happy disposition, but infused by this horror of poverty and decent work, which is now a real epidemic, he undertook all kinds of illicit enterprises, performed the least confessable trades, sold to his own and the others, charging one and the other; he was not afraid to cast a tremendous smear of infamy upon good people and oppressed peoples. A curious phenomenon that he ended his rugged life with the scapular of St. Ignatius on his chest; no doubt, the same scapular he wore when he committed such a long series of abominable deeds.
He was Irish, it seems, and he was indubitably Catholic.
His life is known only by what he said in the last interrogation of February 22.
He answered to be 54 years old, and to be of professional journalist, owner of El Irelandes, an entity of the Fenians after the disappearance in 1865 of the El Pueblo Irlandes, directed by 0 'Donnovan Rossa. He was indicted for an article, and sentenced to 18 months' imprisonment. He had O'Connor, editor-in-chief, and O'Brien, who is now a deputy, under his command at the newspaper.
He met Carey, the spy of Phenix Park, with whom he was in good relations, and was part of the association for the amnesty of the Fenians, of the moonlighters, and of everything Irish, licit and illicit.
In 1882 he committed the first treason, publishing news and secrets in an anonymous pamphlet, Memoirs of an Irish nationalist, which was immediately seized upon by the police and began his time of persecution.
In 1885 he established relations with Houston, a representative of The Times, who bought 300 hard copies of a pamphlet, Parnellism unmasked, and paid for one edition of 5,000 copies. Pigott received travel expenses and stays in Switzerland where he made the famous forgery.
We gave extensive news [coverage] yesterday regarding the confession of the unfortunate adventurer.
We will not end without offering a favorable account, since there are so many rather adverse ones in his black history. He loved his children very much, and, in the final moments of his miserable life, when he was undoubtedly prepared to die, they were his final care.
Peace to the dead!
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:30 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Robert St Devil,

Thank you.

The La Iberia article about Pigott in Paris was very interesting.

Regards,

Simon
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