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  #1321  
Old 10-31-2017, 04:33 PM
AmericanSherlock AmericanSherlock is offline
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Hi Herlock,

Antony's recent book, Move to Murder, is excellent. By far the best website, in my opinion, is Inner City Living, which presents a comprehensive view of the case and the various theories: http://inacityliving.blogspot.co.uk/...-case.html?m=1
Hi John, I was surprised to learn that Mark R. the creator of that site (along with Ged Fagan), apparently has switched to believing in Wallace's guilt. He gave a positive review of Murphy's book on Amazon and it amounted to him basically believing the case was closed. For years, he maintained one could not say one way or another, and actually seemed to lean toward's Wallace innocence if anything, saying nobody could explain to him how WHW avoided blood splatter.
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  #1322  
Old 10-31-2017, 04:34 PM
AmericanSherlock AmericanSherlock is offline
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Thanks AS. It's certainly an intriguing case. Taking CCJ's approach I see three alternatives. Firstly, Razzell is guilty, based upon the dna evidence. Secondly, the "victim" faked their abduction and implicated Razell, based upon possible witness sightings and the fact that she'd been researching relocating. Thirdly, and most interestingly, the involvement of a serial killer! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...convicted.html
The serial killer theory seems very strong, considering all the other murders were committed on March 19th as well! But then, what about the DNA evidence?
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  #1323  
Old 10-31-2017, 04:44 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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The book you read, The Murder of Julia Wallace by James Murphy is the best book arguing in favor of Wallace's guilt.

The Killing of Julia Wallace by Jonathan Goodman is the best arguing for Wallace's innocence and probably the most well known work.

The Killing of Julia Wallace by John Gannon has the most sheer information on the case.

Move to Murder Series (The Wallace Case edition) by the thread creator here, Antony Matthew Brown presents all theories in 1 and represents the most up to date thought on the case. A new version is coming out shortly.
Thanks for the information AS. I really wish that I still had the Murphy book but I need space for more books so some just had to go
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  #1324  
Old 11-01-2017, 12:50 AM
AmericanSherlock AmericanSherlock is offline
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Hi AS, great to speak to you and happy to discuss the case, although I am rusty on it! 20 years ago I could have reeled off chapter and verse but I'll try and do my best off the top of my head!

I accept what you say re point one and can't add much.

Re point two, the main thing that I was aware of was that the pathologist, admittedly haphazardly, said that time of death was six pm. Wallace saying he left at 6.45 therefore left plenty of time for him to have done the whole deed. At that point he was in a sticky situation. Then the milk boy walks into the Bridewell and says that he had spoken with Julia at around 6.40ish (I know this time is uncertain) In turn another witness says he saw the milk boy talking to Julia at around that time. So, suddenly, Wallace only has a matter of minutes as we know that to get to the tram stop (and I have done the walk myself!) when he did, he must have left at the time he said he did. I thought that that was the big inference from the milk boy's evidence or have I got that wrong? The extra bit that I added was that the milk boy made no reference to Wallace himself and vice versa. That says to me that either

1. He left before the milk boy arrived and so is de facto innocent.

2. He was inside the house getting ready and had no knowledge of the milk boy's visit which seems unlikely in such a small house, no radio, TV etc to distract him would he really have not heard his wife chatting on the doorstep? It's possible of course, but I used to live in a similar house/area and you always seemed to know what was going on. It's not like he was in the East wing! If he had heard them talking then that is a huge assistance to him but he never mentioned it?

3. A third option I've missed!

He either leaves before or after the milk boy. Before means innocent. After means he only has a few minutes to commit the murder as we know the latest he must have left.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Police cajole him into saying he saw Julia earlier than he originally said? Off the top of my head but didn't he originally say it was around quarter to but the Police tried to get him to say it was nearer half past? I have heard that but can't think of the source off the top of my head.

I think it's possible that Wallace left just before the milk boy arrived which explains why neither mentioned the other and almost certainly puts Wallace in the clear (as the actual killer)

If you've read my previous posts on JTR you may have seen that I'm not keen on making huge changes years later i.e. turning witnesses into suspects etc. Wallace seems to have been a very ordinary man with no criminal record before or after, their marriage seemed perfectly happy, there appears to be no motive at all and almost everyone, friends, neighbors, employer, the judge, the court of appeal thought he was innocent. The only ones that didn't were, substantially and crucially, the Police and the jury!

If it looks like a duck etc

It is a very strange case.

Ps, could I take the liberty of asking you to give any feedback on the short story I did please? I tried to get it on the Casebook creative writing bit but got no reply ever unfortunately so I just did it on the message boards. I think if you search under threads I've created you will find one called short story by tecs.

Many thanks

regards

tecs
Hi tecs, I'm going on a train later today and I will have some time to check out your story and give feedback.

You are correct the police tried to work back Alan Close (the milkboy)'s time from an initial time of 6:45. 6:31 was the final time he agreed to. Unfortunately whenever that level of police corruption happens, it casts the entire prosecution's case in doubt.

However, there is evidence suggesting the time was a bit after 6:35. 2 other milk boys James Wildman and Douglas Metcalf both claimed they saw Close on the steps of 29 Wolverton at around 6:37. Wildman claims he saw the church clock reading 6:35 a couple minutes before. The time of 6:38, which the OP of this thread settled on in his book is as good as any as a time for when Close departed from the Wallace house. Neither of these 2 were manipulated by the police.
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  #1325  
Old 11-01-2017, 03:18 AM
John G John G is offline
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Originally Posted by AmericanSherlock View Post
Hi John, I was surprised to learn that Mark R. the creator of that site (along with Ged Fagan), apparently has switched to believing in Wallace's guilt. He gave a positive review of Murphy's book on Amazon and it amounted to him basically believing the case was closed. For years, he maintained one could not say one way or another, and actually seemed to lean toward's Wallace innocence if anything, saying nobody could explain to him how WHW avoided blood splatter.
Thst a huge surprise, especially as I thought that, if anything, the site leaned away from Wallace being guilty.
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  #1326  
Old 11-01-2017, 03:48 AM
AmericanSherlock AmericanSherlock is offline
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Originally Posted by John G View Post
Thst a huge surprise, especially as I thought that, if anything, the site leaned away from Wallace being guilty.
It also seemed that way to me. Quite odd.
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  #1327  
Old 11-01-2017, 05:00 AM
John G John G is offline
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Originally Posted by AmericanSherlock View Post
The serial killer theory seems very strong, considering all the other murders were committed on March 19th as well! But then, what about the DNA evidence?
Yes, I agree, especially as everything apart from the DNA points awsy from Razell: lack of sufficient time, CCTV evidence etc. I think the defence team have suggested that the blood may have been planted, given that nothing was detected during the first two forensic examinations. This seems a bit unlikely to me, and where would the police have obtained blood matching the profile of the "victim"?

It may have been a partial profile: this type of evidence is controversial as it relies on the subjective opinion of the forensic expert. But then in that case, where did the blood come from, assuming it wasn't the "victim's"?

Last edited by John G : 11-01-2017 at 05:04 AM.
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  #1328  
Old 11-01-2017, 07:44 AM
AmericanSherlock AmericanSherlock is offline
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Yes, I agree, especially as everything apart from the DNA points awsy from Razell: lack of sufficient time, CCTV evidence etc. I think the defence team have suggested that the blood may have been planted, given that nothing was detected during the first two forensic examinations. This seems a bit unlikely to me, and where would the police have obtained blood matching the profile of the "victim"?

It may have been a partial profile: this type of evidence is controversial as it relies on the subjective opinion of the forensic expert. But then in that case, where did the blood come from, assuming it wasn't the "victim's"?
Is there the possibility of Razzell working together with this serial killer in the same way that a conspiracy would resolve many of the nagging doubts of the Wallace case?

But then like the Wallace case, a conspiracy theory might leave you with more problems than you started out with, particularly as the date followed the pattern of the other serial crimes. This would be odd if Razzell was the mastermind and not Halliwell. Also, hard to come up with a stronger motive for Glyn than for the obsessive, proven evil and psychotic Chris.
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  #1329  
Old 11-02-2017, 12:54 AM
John G John G is offline
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Is there the possibility of Razzell working together with this serial killer in the same way that a conspiracy would resolve many of the nagging doubts of the Wallace case?

But then like the Wallace case, a conspiracy theory might leave you with more problems than you started out with, particularly as the date followed the pattern of the other serial crimes. This would be odd if Razzell was the mastermind and not Halliwell. Also, hard to come up with a stronger motive for Glyn than for the obsessive, proven evil and psychotic Chris.
Yes, I think Razell band Halliwell working together has many problems. For instance, they would presumably have completely different motives. Moreover, it doesn't really explain the blood evidence in the boot of the vehicle: why would an accomplice effectively implicate Razell by using his vehicle, or the vehicle he had access to? Why would Razell agree to such a plan?

Although it sounds far fetched, is it possible that Linda staged her disappearance, setting up Glyn. Thus, she had a history of mental illness and had disappeared before, although she took the children with her. Plus, there's evidence that she was planning to move abroad. Then there's the long standing friend, who claimed to have seen her, whilst driving a vehicle, the day after she disappeared, and that Linda didn't look pleased to see her.

What I find the most fascinating issue, however, is the conflicting hard evidence. Thus, on one hand there's the DNA evidence, which seems to strongly implicate Razell. But on the other hand, CCTV evidence would seem to exonerate him, as the car wasn't picked up by cameras on any of the possible routes that he could have taken.
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  #1330  
Old 11-02-2017, 05:03 PM
Tecs Tecs is offline
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Hi tecs, I'm going on a train later today and I will have some time to check out your story and give feedback.

You are correct the police tried to work back Alan Close (the milkboy)'s time from an initial time of 6:45. 6:31 was the final time he agreed to. Unfortunately whenever that level of police corruption happens, it casts the entire prosecution's case in doubt.

However, there is evidence suggesting the time was a bit after 6:35. 2 other milk boys James Wildman and Douglas Metcalf both claimed they saw Close on the steps of 29 Wolverton at around 6:37. Wildman claims he saw the church clock reading 6:35 a couple minutes before. The time of 6:38, which the OP of this thread settled on in his book is as good as any as a time for when Close departed from the Wallace house. Neither of these 2 were manipulated by the police.
Hi AS.

Thanks for the clarifications. Regarding my point re Wallace leaving before or after Close, which do you think is more likely and what inferences would you draw from your guess?

Enjoy your train journey!

regards

tecs
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