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  #1  
Old 12-10-2017, 02:22 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Default Supreme Court to Hear Case of Bakery That Refused to Bake Cake for Same Sex Marriage

https://www.inc.com/zoe-henry/gay-we...eme-court.html

A very interesting landmark civil rights case is before the court. I can see the arguments of both sides. The same sex couple seem like nice people as does the baker who has suffered financial hardship as well as death threats. I listened to some of the oral argument before the court. The justices were trying to get an understanding of the repercussions from their decision. Their concern is whether anyone can site religious beliefs as a reason to discriminate. As far as I can tell they were attempting to ascertain whether simply baking a cake (as opposed to a cake with a message the baker didn't agree with) constitutes an endorsement of same sex marriage.

It will be interesting to see how they decide the case.

c.d.
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Old 12-10-2017, 02:25 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
https://www.inc.com/zoe-henry/gay-we...eme-court.html

A very interesting landmark civil rights case is before the court. I can see the arguments of both sides. The same sex couple seem like nice people as does the baker who has suffered financial hardship as well as death threats. I listened to some of the oral argument before the court. The justices were trying to get an understanding of the repercussions from their decision. Their concern is whether anyone can site religious beliefs as a reason to discriminate. As far as I can tell they were attempting to ascertain whether simply baking a cake (as opposed to a cake with a message the baker didn't agree with) constitutes an endorsement of same sex marriage.

It will be interesting to see how they decide the case.

c.d.
And it looks like we will soon be facing the same issues in Aus, despite the promises of protections.
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Old 12-10-2017, 02:43 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Hello GUT,

It's a tough one. It seems like everything is complicated nowadays. People should not be discriminated against but people should also have their religious beliefs respected.

c.d.
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Old 12-10-2017, 03:16 PM
Ginger Ginger is offline
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I feel sorry for the baker, but I can't really see how his freedom of speech is being impinged upon. When a customer commissions a baker to make a cake with a message on it, the "speech" is that of the commissioner, not that of the baker. He's simply employing his specialized skills to make something to order.
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Old 12-10-2017, 05:11 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger View Post
I feel sorry for the baker, but I can't really see how his freedom of speech is being impinged upon. When a customer commissions a baker to make a cake with a message on it, the "speech" is that of the commissioner, not that of the baker. He's simply employing his specialized skills to make something to order.
This case is a local one for me, originating in my city of Lakewood. I think the Baker is making a mountain out of a molehill for political reasons. He says as he objects to same-sex marriage, it infringes upon his civil rights as a fundamentalist Christian to be required to make a wedding cake with two groom figures topping it. He says he is an artist, and doesn't want to use his art to support a lifestyle he doesn't believe is right.

That's fine, he can just say he doesn't make cakes for same-sex weddings. But now he is objecting to the lack of business his bakery gets from the publicity about this case, as people disagreeing with his stance on gay marriage are not patronizing his bakery (which is their right, just as it is the baker's right to turn down work for a gay couple). I think it could be a case of wanting to have his cake and eat it as well.
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Old 12-10-2017, 05:33 PM
curious curious is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger View Post
I feel sorry for the baker, but I can't really see how his freedom of speech is being impinged upon. When a customer commissions a baker to make a cake with a message on it, the "speech" is that of the commissioner, not that of the baker. He's simply employing his specialized skills to make something to order.
I think there has to be a middle ground because small business owners are the backbone of this country and should not have to check their consciences at the door when they arrive at work. Also, I can see that some people might be afraid to follow their dream for fear of being forced to participate in areas they prefer to avoid.

I can see the dividing line being the "special services" arena. Everyone is served in the day-to-day. However, owners should not be forced to accept special assignments for events contrary to their religious beliefs. If the business owner was already booked, he could turn down the special order, going to be out of town, he could turn down the order. So, why can't an owner turn down a special order when it conflicts with his personal beliefs?

I'm not sure how the "Freedom of speech" area ties in either.
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Old 12-10-2017, 05:37 PM
Robert Robert is offline
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I'm more interested in the cake.
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Old 12-10-2017, 06:01 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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During oral argument one of the justices made a good point. He said if a woman comes into a bakery and orders a birthday cake for her child that says "Happy Birthday, Bobby" does any adult at the party believe that the baker was in fact wishing the child a happy birthday?

c.d.
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Old 12-10-2017, 06:06 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger View Post
I feel sorry for the baker, but I can't really see how his freedom of speech is being impinged upon. When a customer commissions a baker to make a cake with a message on it, the "speech" is that of the commissioner, not that of the baker. He's simply employing his specialized skills to make something to order.
During oral argument the justices were asking about a message that you don't agree with. What if someone came into a Jewish bakery and requested a cake with a message that said we need another Holocaust? Should the Jewish baker be required by law to make it? These are tough questions.

c.d.

Last edited by c.d. : 12-10-2017 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 12-10-2017, 06:42 PM
curious curious is offline
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Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
During oral argument the justices were asking about a message that you don't agree with. What if someone came into a Jewish bakery and requested a cake with a message that said we need another Holocaust? Should the Jewish baker be required by law to make it? These are tough questions.

c.d.
Or should a Muslim caterer be required to make sausage balls for a brunch? Would they be required to cook bacon recipes, etc. There has to be a way to respect everyone . . .
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