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  #21  
Old 01-01-2016, 03:15 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Default Another one

Sorry, Steve, but this one also:

Who the xxxx is "the Boss"?

Charles Warren?

Regards Pierre
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  #22  
Old 01-01-2016, 03:18 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Steve, do you know if there was any other letter(s) from the killer sent to the police or the newspapers before the double event?
If the question is: were there any other letters supposedly or purportedly from the killer sent to the police before the double event - and as a purported scientist Pierre should know how to use those words - then, yes, there was one dated 24 September 1888, according to "Letters from Hell" by Evans & Skinner.
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  #23  
Old 01-01-2016, 03:26 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
Has Pierre now taken to writing his posts in metaphorical language? I can't understand a word of it.
That's how I feel about pretty much anything Trollierre writes.
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  #24  
Old 01-01-2016, 03:32 PM
drstrange169 drstrange169 is offline
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First letter, readily accesable these days, claiming to be from the killer is dated and post marked 24 Sept 1888.


EDIT

Sorry for the duplication,just saw David's post.
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Last edited by drstrange169 : 01-01-2016 at 03:35 PM.
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  #25  
Old 01-01-2016, 03:53 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drstrange169 View Post
First letter, readily accesable these days, claiming to be from the killer is dated and post marked 24 Sept 1888.


EDIT

Sorry for the duplication,just saw David's post.
Maybe you've got him on ignore like Trollierre has.
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  #26  
Old 01-01-2016, 04:10 PM
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Just had a thunk Pierre said he needed one more bit of data before the huge reveal.

Maybe this is it.

We should all be super mega excited.
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  #27  
Old 01-01-2016, 05:07 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
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"Well, then I have a question for you, Steve: Has anyone proved that the other letter is not authentic?"

Sorry that is not the question, you sound like a song from "Lost Horizon"
However there is no record of this letter until 39 years after the murders, the provenance is very poor! therefore the onus is on you to prove it is authentic, not on me to prove it is not.


"And as you would say: Those who do not argue this only have their own personal opinion".

yes they are opinions,most do not claim it to be the truth. only a possibility,
there are however some like yourself who believe their view is always correct .



"Please listen carefully Steve. There are only two possibilities: either the letter dated the 29th 1888 is written before the Dear Boss letter or it is not. This is the basis for the chance of this letter preceding the Dear Boss letter, so a circle is not the basis, but two categories: YES / NO.

And it canīt very well be both - or can it?"

No your argument is that Dear Boss cannot be first, because you believe the other letter is first.
your support for this is the 29th letter is first because dear Boss was a hoax written after the 29th letter,
THAT IS A CIRCULAR ARGUMENT


"The author of this letter is using a metaphorical language and claims to know that two women will be killed in the Minories the day after the letter was written. And he is warning the police."


you obviously do not know what a metaphor is!

A metaphor says one thing is another, there is however a link between the two

example: the radiant globe in the sky. Meaning the sun

or better still, a train on the London underground about 1978 when they were silver in colour. - "a silver ghost of the line"


You take messages and say they have hidden meanings, however rarely are there connections, you call them metaphors at best they could be described as coded messages, which you think you have the key to.

However what you say is misleading, it does not say that 2 women will be killed the day after. it says:

"Beware. I shall be at work on the 1st and 2nd inst. in minories at twelve midnight"


To say Minories, which is near to Mitre Square is not a metaphor, the murders did not take place at midnight, not sure how that could be a metaphor. In your view anytime could be used?.

Given it was written 29th apparently although no month given, 1st and 2nd should be the days of the month, it is not metaphorical at all.



my view on that is as legitimate as yours!

"No, you are arguing in circles, Steve. You just said the same thing above. And I answered it."

No its not circular,, its repeated do you not understand the the difference.
You did not answer, I asked for evidence, you either chose not to or you cannot answer!



"The provenance is often a problem. But this doesnīt mean that the source is worthless, Steve. You have to consider different sources together with others."


That is not an answer,
again you fail to provide any evidence, i assume because you cannot ?

what different sources are you using to prove this?



"Sure. It must have been, given that it is a hoax."

No that is not proof, it is your view.

"Was it? How do you know this? Or is it only a personal opinion?"

Pierre do some reading:
this letter first appeared in J Hall Richardson's book"from the city to fleet street", it was then quoted by McCormick.
There is no trace of the original letter and no mention of it after Richardson's book until McCormick used it.

Richardson's version just says "29th inst" when McCormick mentioned this in his book, 1959 I think, it became 29th September.
In addition in Richardson's original it is given as one letter, McCormick splits into two.


"Now you are being circular again. So: What actual proof do you have that the Dear Boss letter was written before the other letter?"

No its asking you a question you don't want to answer,

evidence for Dear Boss Letter written first:
Date on letter
Postmark on envelope
Date passed to chief constable Williamson.

Where is your evidence it was written second, other than to say hoax?
produce evidence?



"Steve, you can always discuss the provenance of historical sources. But is there any explicit reason to believe that the date of 29th September 1888 is wrong given the fact that the Dear Boss letter, which was published in the newspapers, had the name Jack the Ripper just two days after the date of the first letter?"

yes there is:

The original did not say September.
There is no trace of the letter, to allow its authenticity to be checked
There is no month or year given, you are assuming September 1888 with out proof of such
There is no evidence of its existence until 39 years after the Murders



"Naturally. And I donīt build my knowledge of the killerīs ID on this letter as you understand. But taken together with other sources I think it is very interesting."


Well of course not, you had not seen it until today. Why had you not seen it?
Could it be because your background on the murders is poor!



"Well, have you got proof or is this just a personal opinion?"


2nd time you asked, yes see above.
Not my opinion.just the facts


"An existing hoax. With false contents. With false dates! How very valuable!"

While it may not have been written by the killer the provenance for these documents is sound and well documented.
What evidence do you have to say the dates are wrong, again see above.
It appears you base this on YOUR PERSONAL OPINION


"4. There is no reference of the 29th Letter until 39 years later."

I notice no comment on this point from me.


It is not my opinion, these are the recorded facts,
If you think these are wrong, discuss with evidence and prove your point.

The views you express in this post are neither scientific or based evidence of any sort.
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  #28  
Old 01-01-2016, 05:11 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Hi again,

Steve, do you know if there was any other letter(s) from the killer sent to the police or the newspapers before the double event?

Any letter at all?

I am asking you since I know you have a lot of knowledge about the murders.

If you donīt know, maybe there is someone else who does.

Regards Pierre
pierre

without looking too hard I point out one, written 24th September, delivered to CID of the Met on the 25th.

why can't you do your own research?
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  #29  
Old 01-01-2016, 05:12 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Sorry, Steve, but this one also:

Who the xxxx is "the Boss"?

Charles Warren?

Regards Pierre
Given it was sent to the Central News Agency i doubt it?

and your point is?
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  #30  
Old 01-01-2016, 05:21 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Given it was sent to the Central News Agency i doubt it?

and your point is?
If the killer was a police officer of the Metropolitan Police Force then Sir Charles Warren was (presumably) the killer's boss.

Do you think he might be heading in that direction?
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