Jack the Ripper: Man or Myth?

[Harry D]

G'day, Lynn.

The need is to address Baxter's remarks at inquest that Kate was possibly the work of an imitator.

If Eddowes had been accepted as the Ripper's work, this would've disproved Baxter's little theory about the mad doctor collecting uteri. It seems to me that he was obviously trying to separate Eddowes murder from the others in order to save face.

[c.d.]

Hello Harry.

"I don't understand the need to complicate matters by introducing a copycat murderer, who now needs to be accounted for, instead of considering the perceived differences in circumstances between the two kills."

The need is to address Baxter's remarks at inquest that Kate was possibly the work of an imitator.

Cheers.
LC

The problem is that all imitators are equal but some are more equal than others. I can see imitation and copycats if it involved throwing stones threw a church window or a certain style of graffiti or hairstyle but I just can't imagine somebody reading about the murders and thinking "you know, cutting a woman's throat and ripping out her internal organs would be kind of cool. I think I might give that a try."

c.d.

[pinkmoon]

I wonder what the actual odds are of having to like minded lunatics in the same area at the same time doing the same thing.

[c.d.]

Hello Pinkmoon,

That question has been debated numerous times. Those who favor multiple killers will say that regardless of the odds if it happened then no matter what the odds the question of probability has been rendered moot.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

Baxter

Hello Harry. Thanks.

Unfortunately, for that theory, Kate's inclusion was doubted, almost from the beginning.

Where do you suppose Baxter got his information?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

1001

Hello CD. Thanks.

Although I have said this about a thousand times, here goes one thousand one.

It is NOT a matter of someone looking for amusement and who then begins killing. It is, rather, a matter of someone who wishes to kill and use another as a cover.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

cold blooded killer

Hello Jason. Thanks.

Why would such a second killer--if he existed--be a lunatic? Why not just a cold blooded killer?

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello CD. Thanks.

Although I have said this about a thousand times, here goes one thousand one.

It is NOT a matter of someone looking for amusement and who then begins killing. It is, rather, a matter of someone who wishes to kill and use another as a cover.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

To which I am always forced to reply a cover for whom? I know you have a favorite crazed individual but overall if the police didn't know who was doing the killings then trying to pass the blame on to another individual really doesn't seem necessary.

Also, my original point is still valid regardless of a cover theory. It wasn't just the killing that was required but mutilation as well. I am not sure that it is a given that even if someone is a killer that they have the stomach to rip out intestines even if it is required as part of the cover.

c.d.

[pinkmoon]

Hello Jason. Thanks.

Why would such a second killer--if he existed--be a lunatic? Why not just a cold blooded killer?

Cheers.
LC

The murder of poor Mary went far beyond simple murder in fact I think our killer only stopped when he could find nothing else to do with the body.

[lynn cates]

cover

Hello CD. Thanks.

"To which I am always forced to reply a cover for whom?"

Killing Kate, of course.

"I know you have a favorite crazed individual but overall if the police didn't know who was doing the killings then trying to pass the blame on to another individual really doesn't seem necessary."

Not necessary--only convenient. What better than to kill someone then have it subsumed under the rubric of "JTR"--or "Leather Apron."

"Also, my original point is still valid regardless of a cover theory. It wasn't just the killing that was required but mutilation as well. I am not sure that it is a given that even if someone is a killer that they have the stomach to rip out intestines even if it is required as part of the cover.'

I agree that not everyone (at least under normal circumstances) could kill--fair enough point. But why assume in a given case that one could not? Several women were killed between 1887-and 91. Unless one lad did them ALL, then there were multiple violent killers about.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

one thing

Hello Jason. Thanks.

Sorry, but I had not mentioned "MJK" nor even thought about her. I prefer to do one thing at a time.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

I think you are missing my point. If the police were looking for Joe Smith as the Ripper then Bob Jones might think of committing a Ripper like murder hoping the police would suspect Smith. But the reality is that no one could throw the police off track as to make them think it was somebody else when they didn't know the identity of the original killer in the first place.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

September

Hello CD. Thanks.

OK, I think I understand you. I have long thought that:

1. Whoever killed Kate was convinced that Polly and Annie's killer was caught.

2. Whoever killed Kate relied on Polly and Annie's killer to be completely unable to confess or be coherent.

In fact, it was these considerations that led me to look into the September suspects and, in doing so, I found Isenschmid.

Cheers.
LC

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Under modern terminology, Jack would be considered a spree killer, not a serial killer.

There is no consensus yet on this. Nobody agrees on what a cooling off period is.

But in my understanding definition of the word "spree", Jack doesn't qualify.

That, of course, depends on how many victims you think were the work of JtR.


Personally, I think he existed. And he killed six: Tabram, Nichols, Chapman, Stride, Eddowes, Kelly.

If I were to let go on of them, I'd go with Stride.

I think it's quite possible that he killed before Tabram, but in a less spectacular fashion.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Annie and Kate both had their intestines lifted out and tossed over their right shoulders. How likely is it that that was done by two different people?

hence, copycat.