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  • Is this the real Barnett

    Hi,
    I am now on dangerous ground, for I have one of my speculative moments.
    What has puzzled me for countless years, is the now acceptance of Mjks common law, being Bruce Paleys 1858 Joseph Barnett, a licensed Fish porter, with a confirmed brother Daniel.
    That is correct, and can be confirmed by from many avenues.
    However although Daniel is traceable on the 1891/1901 census, the man we are all intrested in. is not..
    Why?
    Paley has him emerging around 1906... Not good enough.
    My Joseph Barnett, born in whitechapel around 1861/2, appears in the 1891/1901 census, whats more he is a Fruit dealer, and living at 8, Brady dwellings , Brady street, spitalfields, both census show the same address. he is then a married man[ before 1888] with a family in 1891, and a futher edition in 1901.
    My point being .
    We have a Joseph Barnett , occupation General dealer/ fruit, who resided in 1891, at 8,Brady street dwellings, also in 1901, although a married man in 1888, no children were born between the years 87/88.
    Therefore is it not possible, that this man was infact residing with Mjk between april 87/oct 88, on a on /off basis?
    The most intresting factor being, it has been recorded by experts in profiling, that the first murder in a series, tends to be close to the murderers dwellings.
    Taking that as a guide, it therefore could indicate that Polly Nichols was the first victim. discounting Tabram as many do, and that victim was found no more then 150 yards from this Barnetts abode, infact if reports can be believed the initial attack, actually occurred in Brady street.
    I appreciate that I am assuming that The Barnetts were residing at that residence in 1888, but as they resided there in the 1891/1901 census, and they had a family in 1888 albeit one son born 1886, it is not unlikely.
    Lots of loopholes Guys, but the occupation , and the address , and the age of this Barnett, is at the very least intresting, even if it takes a Nunners/speculative mind.
    Regards Richard.

  • #2
    Save zone

    Originally posted by richardnunweek View Post
    Hi,
    I am now on dangerous ground, for I have one of my speculative moments.
    What has puzzled me for countless years, is the now acceptance of Mjks common law, being Bruce Paleys 1858 Joseph Barnett, a licensed Fish porter, with a confirmed brother Daniel.
    That is correct, and can be confirmed by from many avenues.
    However although Daniel is traceable on the 1891/1901 census, the man we are all intrested in. is not..
    Why?
    Paley has him emerging around 1906... Not good enough.
    My Joseph Barnett, born in whitechapel around 1861/2, appears in the 1891/1901 census, whats more he is a Fruit dealer, and living at 8, Brady dwellings , Brady street, spitalfields, both census show the same address. he is then a married man[ before 1888] with a family in 1891, and a futher edition in 1901.
    My point being .
    We have a Joseph Barnett , occupation General dealer/ fruit, who resided in 1891, at 8,Brady street dwellings, also in 1901, although a married man in 1888, no children were born between the years 87/88.
    Therefore is it not possible, that this man was infact residing with Mjk between april 87/oct 88, on a on /off basis?
    The most intresting factor being, it has been recorded by experts in profiling, that the first murder in a series, tends to be close to the murderers dwellings.
    Taking that as a guide, it therefore could indicate that Polly Nichols was the first victim. discounting Tabram as many do, and that victim was found no more then 150 yards from this Barnetts abode, infact if reports can be believed the initial attack, actually occurred in Brady street.
    I appreciate that I am assuming that The Barnetts were residing at that residence in 1888, but as they resided there in the 1891/1901 census, and they had a family in 1888 albeit one son born 1886, it is not unlikely.
    Lots of loopholes Guys, but the occupation , and the address , and the age of this Barnett, is at the very least intresting, even if it takes a Nunners/speculative mind.
    Regards Richard.
    If the killer were in the triangle of the three kills, it looks like a safe zone for him.

    NOV9
    In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is King !

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi all, we need Mike Covell here...If my memory serves me correctly,we discussed the Barnett brothers,of which there were four, on the boards before they crashed, including finding all sorts of information on them,including market porter licences.Can't remember the name of the thread.

      Comment


      • #4
        barnett's

        Hi All,
        We have a lot of information on Joe Barnett and his siblings. Just to recap.
        Father John Barnett[ died 1864] married Catherine Hayes
        children
        Denis born 1849 KENT married Mary Anne Garrett 1869 Bethnal Green
        Catherine born 1852 Whitechapel[ some of my birth dates differ from Paley because he did not trace them all] married Joseph Beer 1872 Shoreditch
        Daniel born either 1852[ untraced paley ] or 1857 Whitechapel
        Joseph born 1858 Whitechapel
        John born 1859 Whitechapel
        We have addresses for Joe and census records until THE LOST YEARS[ 1891/ 1906. There is speculation that he may have been in Kent, married and working as a labourer. Joe Barnett on two census 1891 and1901 of the right age[ born Spitalfields] He was not actually born Spitalfileds, but nether was any other Joe Barnett born in 1858. Spitalfields was the scene of his greatest trauma.
        I will post Joe's addresses in the next post.
        Miss Marple

        Comment


        • #5
          Joe's Addresses

          Joseph Barnett
          1858 Born Hairbrain Court birth cert
          1861 2 Cartwright st census
          1864 8 Walton's ct
          1871 Great Pearl St census
          1878 Osbourne st
          1878 St Thomas Chamber Paternoster ct Dorset st
          1881 1 Horatio street census [ visiting his brother John]
          1887/8 Brick Lane
          1888 Miller's Court
          1888 21 Portpool Lane,Leather Lane[ His sister's address, he was staying there at the time of the inquest on Kelly
          THE LOST YEARS
          1891 1 True Briton Alley Sheerness, Sheppy Kent?
          1901 Yieldstead Stockbury Kent?
          End of lost years, he is in London again
          1906 New Gravel Lane [ brother Daniel's death certificate]
          1907 60 Red Lion St Shadwell [ new porters license]
          1908 Tench St Wapping
          1919/1926 106 Red Lion ST Wapping death cert
          If it was Joe in Kent[ and I don't believe he was a murderer] I think he was deeply traumatised by what happened to Kelly and left London to start a new life.But it did nt work out. His eldest brother was born in Kent and along with other eastenders the family probably went hop picking, so it might have been a familier place to go to.
          Miss Marple
          Last edited by miss marple; 04-10-2008, 05:52 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Joe's Addresses

            Joseph Barnett
            1858 Born Hairbrain Court birth cert
            1861 2 Cartwright st census
            1864 8 Walton's ct
            1871 Great Pearl St census
            1878 Osbourne st
            1878 St Thomas Chamber Paternoster ct Dorset st
            1881 1 Horatio street census [ visiting his brother John]
            1887/8 Brick Lane
            1888 Miller's Court
            1888 21 Portpool Lane,Leather Lane[ His sister's address, he was staying there at the time of the inquest on Kelly
            THE LOST YEARS
            1891 1 True Briton Alley Sheerness, Sheppy Kent?
            1901 Yieldstead Stockbury Kent?
            End of lost years, he is in London again
            1906 New Gravel Lane [ brother Daniel's death certificate]
            1907 60 Red Lion St Shadwell [ new porters license]
            1908 Tench St Wapping
            1919/1926 106 Red Lion ST Wapping death cert
            If it was Joe in Kent[ and I don't believe he was a murderer] I think he was deeply traumatised by what happened to Kelly and left London to start a new life.But it did nt work out. His eldest brother was born in Kent and along with other eastenders the family probably went hop picking, so it might have been a familier place to go to.
            Miss Marple

            Comment

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