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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #1  
Old 07-09-2017, 09:32 AM
richardnunweek richardnunweek is offline
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Default Was Barnett guilty after all?

Hello all.
I was just looking through some old posts on Forums, and came across a post I made 8 years ago.
I thought it was quite interesting so am repeating it here on Casebook.
Maybe we have been looking at Barnett the wrong way, lets suggest a scenario that may see him in a different light.
Lets assume one thing, Barnett liked a drink, he met Kelly in a pub in Commercial road, some 18 months previous, and at that time she was actively on the game, He also admitted that Kelly and himself were kicked out of lodgings, for 'Going on a drink''.
After the death of MJK,reporters found him in a pub, and he also retired to a local in Leytonstone,with the other mourners, after the funeral.
The suggestion that Barnett appeared drunk at the inquest, may have been based on truth, but most likely not before he gave his evidence to the coroner,
Did they not stop for lunch back then?
So far I have given a insight to Barnett's liking for a drink, .
But how about a scenario, where Barnett actually enjoyed the company of prostitutes , after all he picked up Mary Kelly,whilst she was soliciting,maybe it was his urges to frequent prostitutes , that Mary strongly objected to, and the rows were the result of that.?
Just suppose one of these pick ups was Tabram, and it was while she was leading him into George yard buildings, she remarked''You naughty boy, i shall be telling your Mary about you'' which touched a nerve in him, and he stabbed her to death.
He found that he got actual pleasure, and satisfaction, by acting out violence on her, it was her punishment for the way she was behaving.
This was to start the series,in which the accosting, lent to increasing violence.
It is entirely possible that JB, really loved Mary , but she could no longer tolerate, his obvious obsession with the local women, and she sent him away on the 30th October,quite possible with a hint of fear,
She had already informed Lottie a resident of the court, that she had a dream that scared her, that she was being murdered.
I wonder if it was Barnett killing her.?
As for her demise on the 9th Nov, it could well be that Barnett had a inkling that his ex was suspecting him, which resulted in her being butchered , on the very bed, she had dreamt .
Regards Richard.
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  #2  
Old 07-09-2017, 09:42 AM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Hello Richard,

Your scenario could be correct. The problem is can we come up with evidence to support it? I remember some time ago somebody suggested Abberline was the Ripper. He could have been but again the problem of evidence rears its ugly head. So vary the scenario and vary the suspect it all comes down to evidence.

c.d.
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  #3  
Old 07-09-2017, 09:49 AM
richardnunweek richardnunweek is offline
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Hi CD.
My theory is very speculative, and tongue-in-cheek.
But It gives a different option.
It was written in 2009, and at the very least is different,,
Regards Richard.
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Old 07-09-2017, 09:54 AM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Hello Richard,

Speculation is fine and I meant no criticism of your having a go at it. And if at some point in the future that speculation can be supported with evidence so much the better. If nothing else, speculation is entertaining.

c.d.
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  #5  
Old 07-09-2017, 10:30 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Hi Richard,

I have been curious about Barnett over the years myself. Below I have attached a map of New Street, Bishopsgate. Although I don't know exactly where #24 & #25 was located here(Buller's Lodging House), one can still get the idea how close it was to the Bishopgate Police Station where Eddowes was released on the night of her murder. We also know that Joseph Barnett was playing Whist with some friends here when MJK was murdered and left shortly after to live with his sister.

I have always wondered if Barnett had gone to this location prior to Mary's murder if he had friends there. Even as far back as the murder of Catherine Eddowes about a month before. We have the rumored sighting on the morning after Mary's murder of the man with blood splashes hurrying through Mitre Square and running into another man. Perhaps Joe stayed here periodically when things got heated with Mary? He may have even known Eddowes by sight as she was said to have slept rough in the shed next to 13 Miller's Court.

Food for thought.


Last edited by jerryd : 07-09-2017 at 10:42 AM.
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  #6  
Old 07-09-2017, 10:44 AM
John G John G is offline
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If Kelly was murdered by someone she knew, personally I consider John McCarthy to be a better suspect.
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  #7  
Old 07-09-2017, 11:09 AM
Harry D Harry D is online now
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So MJK was the apotheosis and Barnett never killed again after that?
__________________
Hail to the king, baby!
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  #8  
Old 07-09-2017, 11:49 AM
richardnunweek richardnunweek is offline
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Hi Harry,
I am not suggesting that Barnett was Jack The Ripper, but reversing the plot somewhat, instead of Joseph not liking the kind of life Mary was leading, by bringing home fellow streetwalkers, maybe he was the instigator ?
We have only his word about what went on behind closed doors, none of the other character witnesses, revealed one side or the other.
Regards Richard.
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  #9  
Old 07-09-2017, 08:41 PM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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So what you are saying is after 4 hours of interview/interrogation Barnett passed the truth test and that was that.
But in actuality he sneaked out of his lodging house and murdered MJK.
And the police did not bother anymore to go to Bullers,checked out his alibi - that he played whisk until 12:00 AM.,and slept afterwards and therefore had nothing to do with the MJK murder-asked the residents,lodging house deputy,whisk players,and find out if any resident could vouch Barnett did not leave .

Or if nobody vouched Barnett did not leave,it was just impossible or the police were not bright enough that they could not
have been able to assess Barnett could have left without somebody noticing.And therefore the police not suspecting him was misguided.
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Old 07-10-2017, 12:15 AM
richardnunweek richardnunweek is offline
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Hi,Varqm,
According to The Times Nov 12 88, the police believed the murder happened in daylight.
So although Barnett had a alibi for the hours of darkness, would that have applied for the early daylight hours?.
If the medical reports were wrong, then the entire Kelly case , could take on a new prospective.
Regards Richard.
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