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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Social Chat > Other Mysteries > A6 Murders

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  #4661  
Old 03-23-2018, 06:08 AM
Alfie Alfie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
I believe that Valerie in her first interview said that she and Gregsten had 'picked up a hitch-hiker near Slough', which was in turn picked up by the press in early reports of the A6 Crime. This I am sure was an attempt on her part for both propriety, and to try to hide the fact that she was in an affair with a married man. Then, when she changed that to the pair of them being in the car in the cornfield to plan a motor rally, it was left at that, again for the sake of propriety, but I doubt there was a person in the courtroom - or in the land, for that matter - who wasn't aware of the true reason for their being in the cornfield.

Graham
You may be right, Graham. But I've nowhere seen a quote attributed to Valerie that affirmed this. I'm more inclined to think the hitchhiking story was a false trail laid by the police - to keep some crucial info up their sleeve, and as a way of weeding out that cranks who felt compelled to confess to the crime.
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  #4662  
Old 03-23-2018, 06:25 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfie View Post
You may be right, Graham. But I've nowhere seen a quote attributed to Valerie that affirmed this. I'm more inclined to think the hitchhiking story was a false trail laid by the police - to keep some crucial info up their sleeve, and as a way of weeding out that cranks who felt compelled to confess to the crime.
And you could also be correct - when I get a minute I'll check the books.

I believe a number of nutters confessed to the crime anyway....

Graham
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We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze
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  #4663  
Old 03-23-2018, 07:49 AM
Alfie Alfie is offline
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Default Ronald Lofthouse

The Evening Times' account of the third day of the trial has Sherrard asking Valerie if she recognized the name Ronald or Ronnie Lofthouse. Valerie said no. That's a new name in the A6 investigation to me. Anybody have any idea who he was and why Sherrard would be asking Valerie if she knew of him?
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  #4664  
Old 03-23-2018, 12:31 PM
moste moste is offline
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Originally Posted by Alfie View Post
The Evening Times' account of the third day of the trial has Sherrard asking Valerie if she recognized the name Ronald or Ronnie Lofthouse. Valerie said no. That's a new name in the A6 investigation to me. Anybody have any idea who he was and why Sherrard would be asking Valerie if she knew of him?
And Sherrard didn’t pursue it, or elaborate any further, did he ?
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  #4665  
Old 03-23-2018, 12:47 PM
moste moste is offline
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We don't know, do we, what blood group Gregsten was?
Maybe the AB semen came from the chap that Valerie hung around with when not seeing Mike.
In any event, I think if we could pick the brains of a bona fida, totally impartial, DNA expert, we would be 'set straight' on the usefulness of any and all DNA found in the Pandora's box wherein lay the A6 murders exhibits! regardless of who called for the test.
Again.. the DNA was a means to an end for the establishment and associated authorities to GET the damn monkey off their backs , once and for all. It worked wonderfully.
This is from Derrick last year:

Quote:
Originally Posted by caz View Post
...Can you explain how you know the judgement was wrong to state that smaller quantities of AB seminal fluid were present when the knickers were first examined?...Derrick...
Because I've seen copies of Lewis Nickolls bench notes and read his entire testimony at the trial. No AB semen found on any of the exhibits...full stop. The judges are either lying or were just not paying attention


So ,if Derricks post is to be accepted as factual. We dont know Gregstens blood group DO WE?

Last edited by moste : 03-23-2018 at 01:03 PM. Reason: Added sentence
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  #4666  
Old 03-24-2018, 01:50 AM
Alfie Alfie is offline
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Originally Posted by moste View Post
So ,if Derricks post is to be accepted as factual. We dont know Gregstens blood group DO WE?
Mmm, who to believe, the Court of Appeal or some random poster on an internet forum? It's a tough one.
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  #4667  
Old 03-24-2018, 02:31 AM
Spitfire Spitfire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfie View Post
Mmm, who to believe, the Court of Appeal or some random poster on an internet forum? It's a tough one.
In fairness to Derrick, he said there was no mention of AB semen stains in the 1961/2 reports/bench notes of Lewis Nickolls NOT that MG's blood group was not AB as reported by the Court of Appeal.
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  #4668  
Old 03-26-2018, 05:06 AM
Alfie Alfie is offline
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Default Carol France

Evening Times: "Michael Sherrard, in cross-examination, asked: ‘Your mother was good enough to say ‘Uncle Jim’ behaved perfectly properly towards her and you and your sister. Do you confirm that?’ Miss France: ‘Yes, sir.’"

Hadn't realized till now that Carol perjured herself.
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  #4669  
Old 03-26-2018, 05:46 AM
Spitfire Spitfire is offline
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And this is the report which found its way into the Daily Mirror on Saturday 27th January 1962:

"An earlier witness yesterday was 16-year-old Carol France, eldest daughter of Mrs. Charlotte France, who fainted while giving evidence on Thursday.
Miss France, a hairdresser, spoke of visits to her home in St. John's
Wood, London, by Hanratty, whom she knew as" Uncle Jim."

"Tinted"

She described two occasions last August when, at Hanratty's request, she tinted his hair black.

At the end of her evidence, Miss France went to the back of the court where she began sobbing. Then, as she was being led out of court, she shouted a remark. Hanratty, in the dock, turned to look at her".

The trial continues on Monday"


I wonder what she shouted.
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  #4670  
Old 03-27-2018, 04:34 AM
NickB NickB is offline
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Carole’s sobbing behaviour may have been caused by Sherrard dismissing her abruptly: “I am not going to take up any more time with this. You are just not being completely frank with the court.”

She had admitted to being out only once with Jim. This corresponded with the one outing of which Charles had said he was aware. With her father in a delicate state, it is understandable that Carole did not want to say that there had been other occasions. This frustrated Sherrard – although no doubt he was banking on her not telling the whole truth anyway (i.e. about the sex).

While we are discussing girlfriends, below is:

(1) Telegraph report of Gladys Deacon’s evidence at the committal;

(2) The start of a report about Mary Meaden in the London Evening News, one of two newspapers that carried an interview with her. Spitfire, perhaps you can provide the other one which was in the Daily Mirror on 11-Oct-61.
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