'V' shape cut on MJK's face - WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGES

[Archaic]

It would not surprise me in the slightest if there was a v shaped mark on her face. In fact I would imagine there are several, most however would have been obliterated by stripped the flesh over them.

I'm going to make a horrible comparison here, and I'm sorry for it. But if you want to see the easiest way to strip flesh from a face, or an arm, or any other part with a small amount of flesh over bone, watch a guy cut meat off of a spit. It's almost exactly like the gyro guy at the carving station. It starts with a v shaped cut, small sawing motions until momentum or a change in plane brings the knife out of the meat. Any time a cut was started but not finished, or any time the knife cut too deeply at first would result in a v shaped mark.

I just feel the need to apologize again for the meat on a spit analogy. I know it's awful.

Hi Errata.

Yes, it is a dreadful analogy, but of course what was done to Mary is far more dreadful, and I think your analogy about slicing meat is unfortunately very apt.

Every time I see photos of the victims they upset me, and I know many of my friends feel the same way.

These poor women were murdered and ravaged by a very sick bastard.

Best regards,
Archaic

[sgh]

Thanks Phil

To Phil Carter,
Many thanks for your apologies.

Regards
Steve

[Archaic]

Dr. George Baxter Phillips On Mary's Chemise

Hi Steve.

I looked it up, and it was Dr. George Baxter Phillips who mentioned Mary's chemise.

The following is taken from the Victims Page for Mary Jane Kelly here on Casebook:

Dr. George Bagster Phillips was also present at the scene, and gave the following testimony at the inquest:

"The mutilated remains of a female were lying two-thirds over towards the edge of the bedstead nearest the door.
She had only her chemise on, or some underlinen garment."

Best regards,
Archaic

[sgh]

Regarding Steve's enlargement in Post #3 again, does it look to anybody else as though the killer might have removed her breasts right through her chemise?

The fabric would have been fairly sheer (and probably quite old, like the rest of her clothing) so it would have been very easy to cut through, especially with a knife sharp enough to remove her breasts.

I'm wondering because her chemise still covers her chest and there are huge circular bloody areas where the breasts were. They appear to be cavitous areas.

Of course it's possible that he pushed the chemise up further, excised her breasts, and pulled the chemise down again at some later point but this seems less likely to me.

Best regards,
Archaic

I believe you're correct about the breasts being likely removed through the chemise, Archaic. I can see parts of the same cloth pattern on the body as seen on the left shoulder.
In addition regarding clothing, although I'd rather not post a close up of it yet,
there's evidence of part of some sort of floral patterned dress just visible in the groin area. The pattern is different to the chemise pattern.



Best
Steve

[sgh]

Hi Steve.

I looked it up, and it was Dr. George Baxter Phillips who mentioned Mary's chemise.

The following is taken from the Victims Page for Mary Jane Kelly here on Casebook:

Dr. George Bagster Phillips was also present at the scene, and gave the following testimony at the inquest:

"The mutilated remains of a female were lying two-thirds over towards the edge of the bedstead nearest the door.
She had only her chemise on, or some underlinen garment."

Best regards,
Archaic

We can't get better proof than the written testimony!
Well quoted, Archaic.

Best
Steve

[sgh]

Main 'V' cut on cheek - possibility!

Further to my initial post indicating a possible 'V' shaped cut to MJK's lower right cheek you may notice directly above it there appears to be a more pronounced 'V' shaped injury.
I was fully aware of that but my problem was to try and determine if it is indeed a second 'V' shaped cut and not just a straight slice which adjoins the partial removal of the right cheek thus making the injury 'appear' to be V shaped.
Hence, further analysis in photoshop seems to indicate that it might be, and I stress the word *might*.

The acute angular shape is equivalent to the lesser prominent cut below it, and as you can see in the photo below, in the opposite direction.
Simply put, both 'cuts' are the same size and same angle of 'V' and more or less facing each other. > <
Considering the above possibility of two injuries identical in shape and size
I think may give weight to the theory that they may indeed be purposefully
made cuts with the point of a double edged knife pushed under the skin.

It's a difficult one to call but I can only try my best to work the opposite way round to the norm of reading books on the case first then reaching conclusions second - if that makes sense?

Best
Steve

[Archaic]

Hi Steve.

I do see the V-shape you are indicating, but I'm just hesitant to say it's one distinct cut. Like you'll, I'll say it *might* be a "V"-shaped cut.

I wonder if it would help to post several images of the same photographic feature side-by-side, each at a different zoom ratio? Maybe low-to-high? Being able to easily compare same detail at various zoom levels might help to offset the fact that as one enlarges a photo one loses resolution.

Best regards,
Archaic

[corey123]

Hello All,

I haven't been keeping up with this thread, in fact I have been on a temporary hiatus for a short while. Anyhow, I think the cuts on Mary Kelly's face are random, not purposful distintions as none are seen clearly in the photos nor are they noted in any report. I would think if similar cuts were to be found on Mary Kelly's face as were found on Eddowes' it would have been noted.

Yours truly,

Corey

[Archaic]

Hi Corey, how are you? Nice to see you around again.

I hope school is going well; you must be getting down to the wire.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Wickerman]

I cannot believe the lengths that some people will go to promote something that doesn't exist.
I'm stunned....

[corey123]

Hello Bunny,

Yes four exams and seven tests this week. Not to mention I am moving soon, out of state, and permanently

Also, I have been busy with some ripper-related work still. Interesting thread, although I do see the connection with the cut to the hand, on the face all is unreconisable.

Yours truly,

Corey

[Archaic]

Hi Corey.

Well hang in there, Spring Break is right around the corner!

You go study, we'll be here when your exams are done... we all promise not to solve the case during your big Exam Week.

Take care,
Archaic

[corey123]

Hello Bunny,

Oh no I am done with studying. No all my exams are over...

Who knows, I think the solved case would be a welcoming sight honestly. I must say, I hadn't noticed the cut to the had as an inverted "V" until Phil pointed it out. Thanks for that!

Yours truly,

Corey

[Casebook Wiki Editor]

Further to my initial post indicating a possible 'V' shaped cut to MJK's lower right cheek you may notice directly above it there appears to be a more pronounced 'V' shaped injury.

Somewhere either here or at the Forums Gareth Williams put up a fairly detailed discussion of V shaped cuts.

[Tenth Bell]

In referencing Steve's enhanced image on page one, are we seeing her upper teeth - somewhat "derailed" - at a slightly southwest diagonal to the partially visible right eyeball?? Just so hard to make out the necessary landmarks.
Cheers,
TB aka Chris Cathode