EU Vote

[Ginger]

Edit: And at a time when a US presidential candidate is openly talking about an immigration policy based on Religion or culture, (not nationality), talking about Racial profiling and where Ted Cruz has suggested that "Muslim Neighbourhoods must be secured" (whataever that means), I find it actually re-assuring that there is a higher legal entity to protect certain humanitarian areas from potential abuse by the state.

The existence of these "higher legal entities" asserting sovereignty over the state are a major reason for Trump's popularity. No-one looks out for the interests of a people as well as they themselves do. It's long past time to start controlling the borders again, and putting the walls back up.

[jason_c]

The existence of these "higher legal entities" asserting sovereignty over the state are a major reason for Trump's popularity. No-one looks out for the interests of a people as well as they themselves do. It's long past time to start controlling the borders again, and putting the walls back up.

I agree. With regards to the EU: the greater centralization of powers within the EU the greater push-back we see against it. It's no coincidence we have a rise of the populist right across Europe. If people wish to stop the populist right then stop taking sovereignty away from nation states. Svensson says sovereignty is an emotive issue. Well, emotive issues are amongst the most powerful of issues. I wouldn't claim to know how the EU project will progress; whether it will succeed or fail. What I do know is this: further integration will lead to further discontent. This discontent main be contained, but the risk is huge imo.

[Robert]

The EU is a fascist Ponzi scheme. Of course it will fail.

[Geddy2112]

Stolen from the interwebs...

'Unlike everyone else, who seemingly overnight has become a champion of European legislation and a bastion of the legalities of immigration, I genuinely know f**k all about politics.
Honestly. Can't even tell you the difference between labour, conservatives or the other ones. Is it Lib dems? I don't know what they do. Tories are c***s though... That's literally the extent of my knowledge.
It just doesn't interest me because, and I'm aware that this is painfully apathetic and stupid, but it's boring and I don't see how any of it's actually set up to help me. If I was a bank or building society or a business that operated on the global market or just a c**t who went to Eton and fancied making all my pig diddling mates peers or something then yeah, I'd give more of a s**t. But I'm not. I'm just a bloke who works in a call centre 8 hours a day and whether we're in or out of Europe I'll still have £68 pound a month to pay for bus fares. I'm trapped in renting so I couldn't give less of a s**t about "community" because I'm not really part of one because I might move again in 6 month so what's point? I'll still be skint either way, the concept of owning a house will remain a sick joke and I'll still have to work until I'm a billion and 30 just to retire on the £8.47 I've got saved up in my work pension (yes I'm aware all of these are political points... Irony's funny, isn't it?) but governments aren't set up for people like me... They're set up for people who are either tragically, tragically poor or people who are almost belligerently rich. Even if we save money by coming out, who gives a s**t? What, we're suddenly going to start looking after old folk and buying hospitals are we? Wont we need the four food banks in Leeds anymore? You talk actual p*ss. Any money saved will go into buying more pigs or moats for duck houses.
The point for me is this though; A university professor of 12 years, what has got an actual PhD, specialising in European constitutional law and the relationship between the EU and its member states, specifically the UK, the single market and the free movement of people has said its a f**king s**t idea to leave the EU.
Surely that's enough then? Let's agree with him, surely? He probably knows what's chong and what's not chong.
I mean I know you've got a BTEC in sports science and, yeah... sure, your lass has got her level 1 hairdressing certificate and you both went to Tossa De Mar once for holiday but his points seem to come across better than yours somehow. Like, his arguments are built around solid premises and formulated on numbers and research and s**t whereas yours are like "Yeah well The Sun says all black people are w**kers, so...".
The best way I can think of it is in terms of the biscuit club at work. Everybody pays in and everybody gets nice biscuits. Sure you can get your own biscuits if you want but it's a lot of f**king about and you'll only have to share them anyway. What, are you gonna legitimately eat them all to yourself in an office are you Sharon? Right well that's why you wear sports socks and can't find a husband. Yeah, not everyone gets the biscuits they want all the time but if your choice is s**t biscuits sometimes or no biscuits ever then it's a f**king no brainer. What if you want help to get biscuits but nobody cares because they're sorted for Jaffas now? What about your relationship with people who are still in biscuit club? You think they'll be happy with you tapping Hob Nobs off them everyday because you forgot to go to Jacksons at the weekend? Get to f**k. "Oh no, loads of new people want to join in with biscuit club now!" So? More people means more / better biscuits. Yeah you might have to share more but what are you, 5? If you don't want to share biscuits then f**k off back to Russia you pinko commie swine. Plus, why do you think they WANT to join? It's because these biscuits are brilliant and they haven't got any. Sometimes people do Ramadan and can't eat biscuits while the suns up... Who gives a s**t? Don't have biscuits then. It's ok... Just have them later. Take them home for when suns gone down for all I care. And yeah, some people try and blag it... They don't pay what they should or they eat more than you but you don't just f**k biscuits off all together because of a couple of d**kheads. Grow up you babies. "He hasn't paid for biscuits and by rights he's eating my property!". Yeah... Jason's not paying this week because he's got d**k cancer and he's got better things to worry about. Let him have a biscuit you tight b**tard. F**k me. Plus his wife's got alopecia. Difficult home life mate. Give him a biscuit while he sorts his head out.
I'm just gonna go with the PhD bloke to be honest because he's smarter than everyone else and I f**king love biscuits me.'

[Pcdunn]

Walls?

The existence of these "higher legal entities" asserting sovereignty over the state are a major reason for Trump's popularity. No-one looks out for the interests of a people as well as they themselves do. It's long past time to start controlling the borders again, and putting the walls back up.

Just for the record, and our international friends, there were never "walls" along United States borders, as far as I know. Not physical ones, anyway... Well, unless you count the Relocation Centers for Japanese American citizens, but they were within our borders.

[Beowulf]

Well, IT and BBC calling it 'Out'.

Prob know for sure in the morning but this decision, although I am not over there, seems wonderful to me.

Mind if I say congratulations?

[GUT]

Well, IT and BBC calling it 'Out'.

Prob know for sure in the morning but this decision, although I am not over there, seems wonderful to me.

Mind if I say congratulations?

Here in Aus they're reporting that it's going to be real close, but probably out.

[Limehouse]

Actually Limehouse, although you are writing from the perspective of a resident of the United Kingdom, I know precisely how you feel. It is how I feel at the November Presidential choice of Hillary v. Donald. It is how I feel having worked for three decades in the New York State civil service, and seen the shenanigans involved in promotions by the appointed heads of agencies - a situation that most people never observe, but is so much an example that the old concept of "jobbery" still exists to this day - most likely in all countries. It also colors memories of how my agency was basically undercut by mismanagement, some of it planned by the favorites of former governor Cuomo [the first one] in a scheme to shelve us into a larger agency that did not handle what we handled (as an "economic" move - a better one would have been to cut executive salaries by 25% or so). I have less respect for elective officials now than I did when I began to work for the government, and it is due to what I experienced.

Jeff

Thanks for your interesting comments Jeff.

My husband and I had a conversation last weekend about how the motives and objectives of politicians, of all persuasions, have changed so much over the years. I have never been a 'Tory' (as we call the Conservatives in the UK) but the complexion and behaviour of the top 'Tory' politicians and some of their contemporaries in other parties has changed dramatically since the 1960s and 1970s when I was growing up. I look at many of them with contempt because it is clear that how ever much they claim to care about 'the man/woman in the street' and the country as a whole, their concern is barely more than skin deep. So many of them do not have to worry about how to pay the next round of bills and whether they will have to work until they're 75 because the system has let them down, no matter how hard they worked and saved.

[GUT]

What will it mean for the PM.?

[Svensson]

Well, IT and BBC calling it 'Out'.

Prob know for sure in the morning but this decision, although I am not over there, seems wonderful to me.

Mind if I say congratulations?

Yes I do actually. The pound has already fallen to its lowest level since 1985 and chaos is likely when the stock market opens in 5 minutes. My pension-fund is tied up in there. The last crisis in 2008 already set me back by about 5 years. Scotland meanwhile have already indicated that they want another independence referendum, so there is a real possibility that they will take their north-sea oil with them. The next 18 months are going to be really interesting.

[jason_c]

Yes I do actually. The pound has already fallen to its lowest level since 1985 and chaos is likely when the stock market opens in 5 minutes. My pension-fund is tied up in there. The last crisis in 2008 already set me back by about 5 years. Scotland meanwhile have already indicated that they want another independence referendum, so there is a real possibility that they will take their north-sea oil with them. The next 18 months are going to be really interesting.

Scotland will not be taking it's North Sea oil anywhere until the oil price doubles.

[Rosella]

Surely North Sea oil contracts were signed off by Great Britain as a whole not specifically Scotland, which was and still is part of the United Kingdom? When and if Scotland becomes a sovereign and independent nation then the contracts would have to be renegotiated, one would think.

As an ex Pom, and an Aussie of many decades standing I don't really have a direct interest anymore. However, most of my extended family still in Britain voted to stay in the EU, mainly because they come from rural counties and EU subsidies have greatly assisted British farming interests. I hope things go well for Britain but it does face a very uncertain future.

[Geddy2112]

Leave it is.. by over 1 million votes.

What will it mean for the PM.?

The wimp has resigned, can't even do the job he was elected to do...

[Robert]

This is democracy. Maybe I missed it, but in 1975, during our first referendum, no one said that the result would be binding for all eternity, until the Day of Judgment or until Sandie Shaw learned to sing.

Across the EU there is increasing Euroscepticism. This is often led by what its detractors regard as 'far-right' parties. The reason it's led by 'far-right' parties is that the 'respectable' parties refuse to lead it. Well, if 'respectable' parties abdicate their responsibility to represent their people, they can hardly be surprised if their people go elsewhere.

[Karl]

Well, that's it, then. To quote Beethoven: "Pom pom pom pooooom!"