Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Witnesses: Caroline Maxwell Alibi ? - by Sam Flynn 12 minutes ago.
Witnesses: Caroline Maxwell Alibi ? - by Wickerman 21 minutes ago.
Witnesses: Caroline Maxwell Alibi ? - by Wickerman 33 minutes ago.
Witnesses: What EXACTLY did Maurice Lewis say? - by Joshua Rogan 2 hours ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - by Herlock Sholmes 2 hours ago.
Witnesses: Caroline Maxwell Alibi ? - by Joshua Rogan 2 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - (14 posts)
Witnesses: Our Charles Cross - (8 posts)
Witnesses: Caroline Maxwell Alibi ? - (7 posts)
Motive, Method and Madness: What was occuring in 1888? - (2 posts)
Witnesses: What EXACTLY did Maurice Lewis say? - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Witnesses

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-21-2010, 12:44 AM
Writerboy Writerboy is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 40
Default Robert Lees

How is Lees looked upon now by Ripperologists? I don't mean whether or not he was genuinely seeing the Ripper, I mean whether the story alleged to have happened did happen, namely him leading the police to a house in Mayfair and years later Gull's daughter claiming she remembered this. Has this been totally discredited now?

(Not that I think Gull a serious suspect for a moment.)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-21-2010, 01:58 AM
Adam Went Adam Went is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 779
Default

Well Lees himself actually lived to be fairly old (think he died in the 1930's) so I would have thought that more would have been made of it during his own lifetime if this was indeed the case.

Based on the other actions of the police during the Ripper murders, it doesn't seem too likely - they were clearly not interested in trying any new or different technology in the search for the Ripper (fingerprinting was available in 1888, for instance) - if anything, they went backwards with house to house searches and rewards and increased street patrols, etc. So the use of a psychic was probably also out of the realm of likely options.

It's an interesting story though.

Cheers,
Adam.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-21-2010, 04:35 PM
Jenni Shelden Jenni Shelden is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 448
Default

If i could blow my own trumpet, you might find this of use

http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...eroo-lees.html

Jenni
__________________
“be just and fear not”
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-22-2010, 02:01 AM
Adam Went Adam Went is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 779
Default

Yes, I should have remembered, Jenni is our resident Lees expert, Writerboy.

Cheers,
Adam.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-19-2013, 03:03 AM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Flushing, New York
Posts: 2,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Went View Post
Yes, I should have remembered, Jenni [Shelden] is our resident Lees expert, Writerboy.

Cheers,
Adam.
Hi all,

I am coming late into this thread or any thread dealing with Robert Lees. However something has been brought to my attention recently and maybe Adam, or Jenni, or someone can either straighten this out or help me out of it.

I am a subscriber to THE SKEPTICAL INQUIRER. In the edition for May/June 2013 was a two page article by Massimo Polidoro about a new book he recommended called THE THOUGHT READER CRAZE, by Barry H. Wiley. During the first or second heyday of spiritualism, when people like Sir William Crooks and Edmund Gurney were studying it for a scientific background, certain individuals like "Sir" Washington Irving Bishop demonstrated to the public that they could trace the movements of the individual while they were either out of the room or blindfolded, and if those people hid items they could locate them. One of the people who was mentioned in the article was one Stuart C. Cumberland, whose "abilities" were shown in the House of Commons before Prime Minister Gladstone and other members. According to Polidoro Cumberland claimed he dreamed and saw the identity of Jack the Ripper.

My question: Has the name of Stuart C. Cumberland, or his claim, ever popped up in any of the literature of the case dealing with spiritualists or with Robert Lees in particular?

Jeff
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-19-2013, 08:14 PM
DRoy DRoy is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 695
Default

Jeff,

I recommend you check out the thread titled Kansas Physician Confirms Howard Report under Suspects - General Discussion where TradeName has found tons of Lees articles. He may also be the best person to answer your post.

Cheers
DRoy
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-19-2013, 08:32 PM
dag dag is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayerling View Post
Hi all,

I am coming late into this thread or any thread dealing with Robert Lees. However something has been brought to my attention recently and maybe Adam, or Jenni, or someone can either straighten this out or help me out of it.

I am a subscriber to THE SKEPTICAL INQUIRER. In the edition for May/June 2013 was a two page article by Massimo Polidoro about a new book he recommended called THE THOUGHT READER CRAZE, by Barry H. Wiley. During the first or second heyday of spiritualism, when people like Sir William Crooks and Edmund Gurney were studying it for a scientific background, certain individuals like "Sir" Washington Irving Bishop demonstrated to the public that they could trace the movements of the individual while they were either out of the room or blindfolded, and if those people hid items they could locate them. One of the people who was mentioned in the article was one Stuart C. Cumberland, whose "abilities" were shown in the House of Commons before Prime Minister Gladstone and other members. According to Polidoro Cumberland claimed he dreamed and saw the identity of Jack the Ripper.

My question: Has the name of Stuart C. Cumberland, or his claim, ever popped up in any of the literature of the case dealing with spiritualists or with Robert Lees in particular?

Jeff
Jeff

Back in 2003, Chris Scott posted a cutting from an Australian newspaper of Nov 11, 1889 which describes Cumberland's dream portrait of the Ripper. You can find it here:

http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4920/6278.html

Unfortunately, the article is difficult to read. Chris: did you ever find time to fully decipher it?

David
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-19-2013, 08:42 PM
Graham Graham is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Midlands
Posts: 3,314
Default Stuart Cumberland

Paul Feldman in Jack The Ripper - The Final Chapter has a good deal to say about Stuart Cumberland, who was the editor of a journal called "The Illustrated Mirror" and who was evidently very interested in the Whitechapel Murders and also in Florence Maybrick. Cumberland spoke more than once of his 'dream' and his 'vision' of Jack The Ripper, and who he might be. I don't know of any interest Cumberland might have had in spiritualism in general and Robert Lees in particular. Feldman seemed to think that Cumberland knew more about the Ripper crimes than he let on, and especially regarding the supposed 'diary' of Mrs Maybrick, which was apparently being touted around the sensational press at the time.

Graham
__________________
We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-19-2013, 10:03 PM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Flushing, New York
Posts: 2,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
Paul Feldman in Jack The Ripper - The Final Chapter has a good deal to say about Stuart Cumberland, who was the editor of a journal called "The Illustrated Mirror" and who was evidently very interested in the Whitechapel Murders and also in Florence Maybrick. Cumberland spoke more than once of his 'dream' and his 'vision' of Jack The Ripper, and who he might be. I don't know of any interest Cumberland might have had in spiritualism in general and Robert Lees in particular. Feldman seemed to think that Cumberland knew more about the Ripper crimes than he let on, and especially regarding the supposed 'diary' of Mrs Maybrick, which was apparently being touted around the sensational press at the time.

Graham
Hi Graham, David, and DRoy,

Following DRoy's advice I went through Kansas Physician Confirms Howard Report thread, and found one comment on Cumberland. It at least showed that Cumberland's claim was known. I don't know how true that vision was, but it was known.

Thanks for your other leads. I just wonder how many of these gentlemen actually did believe they saw the Ripper in visions or just claimed it "for affect".

As for the amount of work and research done on that thread by it's creator - boy he did a really fine job.

Jeff
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.