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  #4421  
Old 01-24-2018, 09:29 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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Nick, the same paragraph in the 1999 edition of Woffinden reads:

Henderson was precise about the timing. 'I know I left Margaret [his girlfriend] at about 9.45'. So this statement also demonstrates that Valerie Storie erred in her timings. It puts back the beginning of the crime by a critical 30 minutes or so, from approximately 9.30pm to 10.00pm - critical because the gunman would have been able to approach the car under cover of darkness.

Originally, he says Valerie may have erred; 1999 edition the 'may have' has been removed. As has mention of the interior light and the car 'moving back' into the field after the gunman entered.

I'm not sure what Woffinden was getting at here, but again it seems he is rigourously questioning Valerie's veracity. Is he I wonder suggesting that they perhaps picked up the gunman somewhere between Hunterscombe Lane South and the cornfield?

Graham
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  #4422  
Old 01-24-2018, 10:01 AM
Derrick Derrick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
Originally, he says Valerie may have erred; 1999 edition the 'may have' has been removed. As has mention of the interior light and the car 'moving back' into the field after the gunman entered.

I'm not sure what Woffinden was getting at here, but again it seems he is rigourously questioning Valerie's veracity. Is he I wonder suggesting that they perhaps picked up the gunman somewhere between Hunterscombe Lane South and the cornfield?
Graham
The editions of Woffindens book were, as we all know, published in 97 and 99. The CCRC investigation was conducted in that exact interregnum. More than likely ole Bob saw one of Storie's statements that swayed his view.
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  #4423  
Old 01-24-2018, 10:18 AM
NickB NickB is offline
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If he had seen one of Storie’s statements that swayed his view, I doubt he would have claimed in the later edition that she had ‘misled everyone’.

In the section I quoted from the 1st edition, Woffinden comments on Henderson’s statement as if he had seen the car parked in the cornfield entrance. Someone must have pointed out to him that what Henderson actually said was that he saw the car parked in Huntercombe Lane South. Woff then re-wrote certain sections to assert that they stopped in HLS first and then went on to the cornfield.

But I seriously doubt if Henderson did see the car at a bend in Huntercombe Lane South. The cornfield entrance was also on a bend, where Marsh Lane meets Court Lane. I note that Henderson did not make his statement until 10th September - time for the memory to lapse a bit. (Or he may have been right about the place but not seen the car - he was not certain it was a Moggie.)

Also, looking at the map, it seems to me that when Valerie said they took the third turning on the right it is likely that she meant they went down Lake End Road - not Huntercombe Lane South.

In short, I’m coming round to the view that there was no stop off in HLS.
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  #4424  
Old 01-24-2018, 10:49 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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Quote:
The cornfield entrance was also on a bend, where Marsh Lane meets Court Lane.
I'm not too sure of that, Nick. I've always thought that 'the' entrance is further up Marsh Lane, and is I believe the one where an electricity sub-station now stands.

I understand that Valerie and Gregsten often parked in Hunterscombe Lane South, so I'm inclined to believe Henderson. And he said (Woffinden 1999 Page 32) that the car he saw parked in a field off HLS was 'definitely a Morris, I think a Morris 1000' (i.e. a Minor). He said the car was a lightish colour, which would describe a light grey vehicle. Woffinden clearly accepted Henderson's statement.

I've never actually walked Hunterscombe Lane, but have driven along it, and it certainly is twisty, so you'd think that a car or a motor-bike would have to slow down, allowing a driver or rider to see a vehicle parked just inside a field. (I tried to get into The Pineapple Pub for lunch that day, but is was packed out).

Graham
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  #4425  
Old 01-24-2018, 11:36 AM
NickB NickB is offline
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I've always thought that 'the' entrance is further up Marsh Lane, and is I believe the one where an electricity sub-station now stands.
Yes I read about the Great Cornfield Entrance Debate of 2008.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...2113#post22113
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  #4426  
Old 01-24-2018, 02:14 PM
moste moste is offline
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Hi Nick,

yes, I did indeed point out what you highlighted. However, moving to Woffinden Page 32 (I'm now with my books again) he writes:

Henderson's statement seems one to be relied upon. It is of great value for two reasons. It shows that, from the outset, Valerie Storie misled everyone about precisely what happened after she and Gregsten left the Old Station Inn. Here was the car, parked up, but not in the cornfield. It explains one minor aspect of the case which has always baffled everyone: why did they take the third turning on the right from the pub, when they could have reached the cornfield by taking the firstright?

It is probably a minor point, but the above has always given me the impression that Woffinden felt that Valerie Storie deliberately misled investigators on this point. I may be totally wrong, of course. However, I'm sure i recall reading somewhere that Valerie stated that she and Gregsten had often parked in Hunterscombe Lane South.

Graham
On the parking in Huntercomb Lane the best theory I could come up with,(always providing that it was their Morris Minor, which I believe is much more likely that not) was that the original plan was not to go to the marsh lane field that night.
As I mentioned recently, from the Huntercomb Lane location Storie lived only a few minutes walk away, along a pathway between farmers fields then onto her housing estate . Something caused them to change their minds , possible discussions or disagreements about what would be the rest of the nights activities. I myself am not on board with the statements which came later about Mr. and Mrs Storie ‘being ok with her relationship with a married man with children’ . There is a good amount of ‘protection of reputation ‘ going on between the members of the Storie family at that time in my opinion.
As an investigative journalist, I would be calling at the neighbours houses to question them on how often the Morris Minor was seen at the Anthony Way house,it could well have been a start into deciding how much truth their was in the statement’Mike used to come over for tea , after someone had snitched on me and Mike my parents were fine about it all’ . I don’t believe that.
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  #4427  
Old 01-24-2018, 02:24 PM
Graham Graham is offline
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Originally Posted by NickB View Post
Yes I read about the Great Cornfield Entrance Debate of 2008.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...2113#post22113
It's interesting to note that not even Jean Justice and Jeremy Fox were sure just where THE entrance to the cornfield was, and had to concoct a highly dubious story that Alphon showed them the precise location on their visit to the area as I referred to in a previous post. On the hot day I did the walk down Marsh Lane the whole locale seemed completely deserted, not a soul to be seen, so I couldn't ask. Either that, or I was recognised as an 'A6 Freak' and everyone stayed indoors until I'd gone......

Graham
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  #4428  
Old 01-24-2018, 02:30 PM
Derrick Derrick is offline
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If he had seen one of Storie’s statements that swayed his view, I doubt he would have claimed in the later edition that she had ‘misled everyone’.
The September 11th statement was only fully disclosed during the CCRC enquiries; that is where the previous Sunday's sexual intercourse between Gregsten and Storie is first mentioned by Storie. That withheld statement may include things that Storie contradicted in court; Woffinden would have seen it in full and concluded that Storie's timings were indeed wrong on this point.
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  #4429  
Old 01-24-2018, 03:33 PM
NickB NickB is offline
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But he says: "It shows that, from the outset, Valerie Storie misled everyone ..." 'It' being Henderson's statement.

I don't see this as a pro or anti Hanratty point. Just asking if there is any reliable evidence that they stopped off somewhere else first, as I can't see any.
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  #4430  
Old 01-24-2018, 05:27 PM
moste moste is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
It's interesting to note that not even Jean Justice and Jeremy Fox were sure just where THE entrance to the cornfield was, and had to concoct a highly dubious story that Alphon showed them the precise location on their visit to the area as I referred to in a previous post. On the hot day I did the walk down Marsh Lane the whole locale seemed completely deserted, not a soul to be seen, so I couldn't ask. Either that, or I was recognised as an 'A6 Freak' and everyone stayed indoors until I'd gone......

Graham
Graham, So would you suggest that the leaving of a beer bottle being dropped at the entrance to the field that p.l.a. had directed the friends to, and subsequent retrieval of same bottle , proving that Alphon had indeed picked out the correct field, from a number of like fields, do you suggest all this as poppycock.
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