Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
A6 Murders: Bob Woffinden has died - by NickB 19 minutes ago.
Doctors and Coroners: Eddowes' gut cut - by Sam Flynn 3 hours ago.
Shades of Whitechapel: Dennis Nilsen - by Sam Flynn 3 hours ago.
Doctors and Coroners: Eddowes' gut cut - by Trevor Marriott 3 hours ago.
Shades of Whitechapel: Dennis Nilsen - by Darryl Kenyon 4 hours ago.
Doctors and Coroners: Eddowes' gut cut - by Wickerman 7 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - (9 posts)
Shades of Whitechapel: Dennis Nilsen - (7 posts)
Doctors and Coroners: Eddowes' gut cut - (6 posts)
General Discussion: Do you think it will be solved? - (2 posts)
Bury, W.H.: "...but because you are going to hang me you will get nothing out of me..." - (1 posts)
A6 Murders: scan of Hanratty statement re Rhyl alibi - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #671  
Old 01-26-2018, 08:18 AM
StevenOwl StevenOwl is offline
Constable
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 88
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer View Post
Then by the answers you have provided you have nailed yourself to the "old hoax" mast
Have I? I thought I was just pointing out that some things need explaining before I'll accept Mike Barrett as our master forger.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #672  
Old 01-26-2018, 08:20 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,896
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
give a hypothetical example of "proof" that he forged it.
No need for a hypothetical example, the evidence he forged it, or was a party to its forgery, is contained in the first signed affidavit.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #673  
Old 01-26-2018, 08:39 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,951
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenOwl View Post
For me, if there was an official record of Mike Barrett (or Anne Graham, or Tony Devereaux), between 1989 and 1992, visiting the archives where private Maybrick family info could be obtained then I'd say that was as close to a smoking gun as we're going to get.

Or perhaps if the auction house where Barrett claimed to have bought the diary from were to confirm that he did indeed purchase that very photograph album as part of a job lot.
Thanks Owl

but one could just come up with another ludicrous reason for these "coincidences", like they have for every other one.

and these examples to me don't even come close to:

He admitted hoaxing it in a sworn affidavit
he attempted to obtain a Victorian diary with blank pages
the use of "one off instance"

nor the ludicrous explanations for these!

I mean if these aren't "proof" enough- nothing will prove it to the diary defenders.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #674  
Old 01-26-2018, 09:02 AM
Henry Flower Henry Flower is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Hackney Wick
Posts: 1,132
Default

Kaz, did you ask permission to quote from that private message on the public forum?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #675  
Old 01-26-2018, 09:20 AM
Kaz Kaz is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 375
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Flower View Post
Kaz, did you ask permission to quote from that private message on the public forum?


No, didn't realise I needed to...

Pinks opinions change daily, its not something he keeps hidden..

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=7657
__________________
Tempus omnia revelat

Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #676  
Old 01-26-2018, 10:17 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 9,717
Default

Thanks, Steven
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenOwl View Post
That Gladys Maybrick was frequently unwell as a child; that JM referred to himself and liked to be called Sir Jim/Sir James when at home; that JM found a new supplier for his arsenic at a specific point towards the end of his life. I believe that none of those things were common knowledge in the late '80s/'90s and were only verified by searching in archives after the Diary came to light.
David Orsam has shown that the Gladys's sickliness was reported in various newspapers, and could be easily researched. Even without research, I have to say that it's quite common for a 3-year-old child to be frequently sick, so this being mentioned in the diary might simply be a lucky guess on the author's part, and not a very risky one at that.

David also casts considerable doubt on Maybrick's ever being known as "Sir Jim/James" at home. I'd just observe that "Sir Jim" appears in the diary not as a nickname, rather as a means of reinforcing Maybrick's recurring fantasy of being knighted. It wouldn't take a genius to dream up such a device, nor would it require any research; anyone who wanted to depict Maybrick as a crazed egomaniac might easily have him imagine being ennobled by the illustrious Queen Victoria.

If the diarist(s) had had more imagination, they might well have elevated him to the peerage, in which case we'd be talking about "Lord Jim" and no tenuous connection with Maybrick's (supposed) domestic nickname would have been made. Besides, the diary refers to Maybrick as "Sir Jack" almost as often as it refers to "Sir Jim" - if not more so. It therefore appears quite likely that the author was thinking of Maybrick-as-Ripper, not Maybrick's domestic persona, when writing these "Sir Jim/Jack" passages.

As to the new arsenic supplier, I think it probable that the diary is referring, not to the fact that Maybrick has found a new pharmacist, but that he's found murder to be a good substitute for his drugs: "Have I not found a new source for my medicine. I relish the thoughts that it will bring me. I enjoy thinking of the whores waiting for my nice shining knife". The word "medicine" is being used entirely metaphorically in this context - arsenic gives him a high, and now killing gives him a high.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

Last edited by Sam Flynn : 01-26-2018 at 10:26 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #677  
Old 01-26-2018, 10:51 AM
rjpalmer rjpalmer is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 257
Default

Kaz, thanks for the link.

Quote:
"forger lost bottle and never tried to unleash this on general public"

Reminds me of an observation once made by Peter Birchwood, who suggested that the Diary contains this very phrase.

At one point, Sir Jim makes a comment that Harrison/Smith have transcribed as "I have lost my battle," but, looking directly at the handwritten text, PB cleverly suggested that it actually reads "I have lost my bottle," showing the forgers were not above tossing out the odd modern idiom heard down the boozer.

As you can imagine, this observation didn't go over too well. I'm not sure if Peter was tweaking noses just for jollies, or whether he believed this was the correct transcription. Enjoy your weekend.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #678  
Old 01-26-2018, 11:38 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,816
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenOwl View Post
What about the fact that the Diary contains several throwaway references to everyday things/events in the life of the Maybricks which, between 1989 and 1992, could only be obtained from documents buried in rarely accessed archives?
None of the three examples you give, Steven, demonstrate that the Diary contains references to things which could only have been obtained from documents buried in rarely accessed archives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenOwl View Post
That Gladys Maybrick was frequently unwell as a child;
As Sam Flynn has mentioned, that one was disproved by me last year.

See: www.orsam.co.uk/maybrickthefalsefacts.htm

In short, the comment made by Margaret Baillie in a letter dated 13 April 1889 that Gladys was ill "again" was published in contemporary newspapers reporting the Maybrick trial. But even more than this, the evidence only shows that Gladys was ill on more than one occasion during 1889. There is precisely zero evidence in archives, or anywhere else, that Gladys was ever ill during 1888, which is the year in which the diary tells us she was ill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenOwl View Post
JM referred to himself and liked to be called Sir Jim/Sir James when at home;
You are quite mistaken, No evidence has ever been produced that JM ever referred to himself as either Sir Jim or Sir James nor that he liked to be called this when at home. You need to stop copying from Robert Smith's (inaccurate) book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenOwl View Post
that JM found a new supplier for his arsenic at a specific point towards the end of his life.
The information that JM obtained arsenic from Valentine Blake in February 1889 was first published in J.H. Levy's 1899 book 'The Necessity for Criminal Appeal' and was repeated in the modern secondary literature, for example in 'The Poisoned Life of Mrs Maybrick' by Bernard Ryan. So this is another non-point.

The fact of the matter is that there really isn't any information about Maybrick's life described in the Diary that could only have been obtained from "rarely accessed archives".
__________________
Orsam Books
www.orsam.co.uk
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #679  
Old 01-26-2018, 12:14 PM
Scott Nelson Scott Nelson is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
No evidence has ever been produced that JM ever referred to himself as either Sir Jim or Sir James nor that he liked to be called this when at home.
What about the Trevor Christie Collection of letters housed at the University of Wyoming used for research on Christie's book? Didn't one written by Florence Aunspaugh allegedly state that Maybrick referred to himself as "Sir Jim"?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #680  
Old 01-26-2018, 12:20 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,816
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Nelson View Post
What about the Trevor Christie Collection of letters housed at the University of Wyoming used for research on Christie's book? Didn't one written by Florence Aunspaugh allegedly state that Maybrick referred to himself as "Sir Jim"?
No, it didn't.
__________________
Orsam Books
www.orsam.co.uk
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.